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Topic Review (Newest First)
01-21-2013 09:02 PM
amc49 I could not agree more. Dorman has a stranglehold on small OEM type (note I say type, not OEM, they look same but definitely aren't!) parts, unfortunately, they apparently contract with Chinese shops that use some of the crappiest materials on the planet. Their plastics suck, their rubber products instead of stretching like rubber should simply tear with hand force only, and not a lot either. Some steel parts can work OK but others are so low quality steel that they fail very quickly. Their front end parts like balljoints are absolute garbage, don't let the lifetime warranty fool you. No one makes replacement plastic coolant reservoirs, Dorman saw that as a market and upon filling it, gets back almost every reservoir they sell when they crack to fail, often in two weeks or less, many in a day. They make parts for OEM, but hoping they are somewhat better quality, certainly no guarantee of that though. I wouldn't trust even a junk motor to one of their thermostats, I've seen them commonly stuck open right out of the box.

At the last of my time at the store they were moving into instrument panel replacement gauges in the hundreds of dollars, every one I sold came back almost instantly as having one thing or another wrong with it.

As long as no competition comes forward to force them and other companies like Anchor mounts to make better quality parts they will continue to cynically supply the world with worthless crap and charge top buck for it. I go out of my way to avoid products from either company having sold and returned so many of them. Buyer beware!
01-21-2013 05:26 AM
MarkZX3 The first two housings I had were OEM housings that was the reason for the change to anything but factory. Then when I got the Dorman housing I found out that the housing was a factory housing with a worthless pre-installed thermostat (that didn't work) and what looked to be a little thicker slice of inner tube seal. But Dorman didn't mold the housing I got, just repackaged an OEM.

Which brings me to a suggestion for others here, if you end up with a Dorman housing I for sure wouldn't leave there cheap thermostat in it! the one in mine never OPENED the first time!

Mark
01-21-2013 01:22 AM
amc49 Dorman products suck, one reason people change housings so much. They use absolutely crap plastic. I sold enough of them and then warrantied almost all of those very soon after.

Permatex #2 was always gasoline soluble, I used to clean it off parts in the '70s by soaking them in fuel. RTV is too but in a different way, it doesn't dissolve but releases its' grip as it shrivels up into mush. Both seal and survive based on the fact that once pinched in place the solvent can only attack it in a thickness of say 1-2 mils. Even though it dissolves, it would take years to get across the width of the sealing surface.

I have 3 zetecs and haven't changed a housing yet. 39 total years of use there..........
01-19-2013 08:13 PM
MarkZX3
Quote:
Originally Posted by gary the wolf View Post
all this for a cracked housing,,,mine took a hour to change
LoL, if you put a stock one back on and keep the car long, you will put several more on, they are made to LEAK!
The only thing that Doorman did with the housing was use a little thicker walled inner tube for their seal, its going to leak again.

After you change it two or three more time you can get it done in well under an hour.

I did think about using cork gasket material instead of the paper. I know one thing I'm not going to use the inner tube seal again! I'll Epoxy it solid to the head before I do that, you don't have to take the housing off to change the thermostat so it could be permanently bonded to the head for all I care.

Mark
01-19-2013 07:54 PM
MarkZX3
Quote:
Originally Posted by gary the wolf View Post
they have complete housings at APS,,l jus had mine changed,,caused by leaking valve cover which l changed a few months ago
Leaking oil isn't what makes these leak, its that stupid slice of inner tube they call a seal!
Its to soft,
Its just flips over,
I'm on my third housing now and I have no doubt its going to leak again. And just to note, none of my housings cracked.

I know a lot of people that have luck with silicone sealants, but I'm not one of them, I did One Time get the RTV black to work a bit.

Also, I found out that the "Great" Permatex #2 formula has been changed from the early version! it used to state "Impervious to Gasoline and Solvents" it doesn't state that anymore and I found out that's its not! I'm not sure if its worth buying anymore or not?

When I got the car it took about a year for the housing to start leaking, when I took it apart it had a crap homemade gasket from what looked like a cereal box. The groove wasn't filled in with anything, but it held up WAY better than the inner tube seal does.

How about the Permatex "High Tack" gasket sealant, its yellow and it states that using this product eliminates the need for weather stripping adhesive, anybody tried it?

Mark
01-19-2013 07:06 PM
amc49 The weatherstrip adhesive you have now is not the product you knew and loved in '77. I used to use it quite a bit too, it has been severely changed for VOC content and absolutely does not work as well as it used to. It comes loose now even from rubber, which it is designed to grab the hardest. It lumps up even more than it used to to make uneven thickness. It DOES crack now with temperature.............and it is one of the most inflexible gasket sealers out there, but always was, even back then. Don't know where you got that idea. I don't use it at all for gaskets anymore, way too many other much better products. As flat as you have it now one of the better silicone gasket makers may work well with no paper gasket at all. I'd be trying it with no paper gasket.

No way will a paper gasket seal without crush, the crush is what squeezes the pores of the paper flat to not leak, simply gluing it up seals the sides but not edges, which will eventually seep coolant. The crush also seals gasket from coolant getting in it to soften it to come apart, after all the special chemicals in there it is still paper..........

Using original rubber gasket the cover was never intended to be dead flat, the steel inserts hit first, why they stick up slightly.

The original tightening is closer to inch pounds, if you repeat that the paper gasket will leak.
01-19-2013 06:27 PM
gary the wolf all this for a cracked housing,,,mine took a hour to change
01-19-2013 06:22 PM
gary the wolf they have complete housings at APS,,l jus had mine changed,,caused by leaking valve cover which l changed a few months ago
01-19-2013 12:42 PM
MarkZX3
Quote:
Originally Posted by amc49 View Post
.................
Well there seems to be some concern about being able to tighten the bolts enough to seal the gasket without cracking the housing.
My thinking is that using a good bonding agent to both sides of the gasket and letting it fully cure should reduce the need for higher torque.

Next, what I found was during the lapping of the housing is they are not "Flat" I had to actually sand beyond the Epoxy fill to get the housing to make a complete and full contact across its entire surface. I figure this is adding to some of the housings getting cracked.

Another thing I found was while lapping the housing was the full length steel inserts were not even with a housing surface, lapping corrected that on at lest the sealing surface side of the housing.

The gasket paper I used was a thin hard pressed type, so my hope is that no more torque will be needed to seal the gasket than the rubber seal. The plan is to create a good cured bond with the yellow weather stripping adhesive and tighten the bolts to normal torque. I do think that running the bolts down "EVEN" with the gasket may be even more important than with the soft rubber seal.

Some people doubt the use of the weather stripping adhesive for a gasket sealer.

The short story of how I started using it.

Around 1977 I had a Chevy Blazer (New) and it had coolant leaks and oil leaks from a number of places. I took it to the dealership several times to get them to fix it, to no avail!. I was a mechanic at the time working for Firestone, so I decided to just fix it myself.
I went to one of the parts stores where we most often ordered parts from and I new all the people that worked ther, and one of them had been around the parts business for YEARS. So I go in getting the stuff I need to fix my leaks and I also ask him for the "Absolute" best gasket sealing on the planet and at any cost?? well he brings out a tube of (at the time) "3M yellow Weather Stripping Adhesive" I ask, this is the best? to which he replied Yep! I have used it ever sense.
It bonds,
It seals,
It don't crack,
It flexes.
It has become my best friend, LoL

Mark
01-19-2013 12:46 AM
amc49 .................
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