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Topic Review (Newest First)
12-14-2014 02:12 PM
sailor I was a little surprised the first time I saw that, but as I thought about it my guess was that recording numbers made more sense than a "check off" box in terms of forcing an actual check. WAY too easy to just check off the boxes to fill out a form, and that doesn't accomplish anything.

TA (Travel centers of America) does it as well as Speedco (a quick change chain for trucks). Petro is part of TA now so if they hadn't it's prob. on their list as well now.

You're right on large maint./repair bills, from what I've seen a good budget is to plan on as much for that as for the monthly Truck pymt.. Typical ballpark on a used Truck is $1,000/mo. ea. for pymt., maint./repair & Insurance as a minimum. (and that's just the large bills for overhead)
12-14-2014 12:30 PM
wavsine
Quote:
Originally Posted by sailor View Post
Big Rig engines have all the filters vertical, and pre-charge mentioned is std. for all of them (Oil & fuel).

Many service facilities record oil pressure before & after the change, both as a double check to prove their work & to show the higher oil pressure after a change.

When an owner/driver is present each step is shown for check off/proof as it's done, particularly torquing of drain plugs & that pressure check.
Thanks Roger. I learn something new every time you post. I had a friend that owned his own rig and I was unaware of that. I do know the repair bills were huge on his Kenworth.
12-14-2014 10:03 AM
sailor Big Rig engines have all the filters vertical, and pre-charge mentioned is std. for all of them (Oil & fuel).

Many service facilities record oil pressure before & after the change, both as a double check to prove their work & to show the higher oil pressure after a change.

When an owner/driver is present each step is shown for check off/proof as it's done, particularly torquing of drain plugs & that pressure check.
12-13-2014 10:34 AM
Lscman
Quote:
Originally Posted by wavsine View Post
Agree 100%. Subaru boxer engines mount the filter upside down so no preload on those. Of course it doesn't matter on some of the newer Subarus because the oil consumption is so high the crankcase is empty before the next oil change if you don't add oil every time you buy gas.
I would turn the car upside down to change the filter.
12-13-2014 10:13 AM
Lscman
Quote:
Originally Posted by Texaswiley View Post
I had a GTO in the mid 60's that would knock like crazy after an oil change (30w oil) To the point I would sometime panic, shut it off and recheck oil level. Precharging totally eliminated that. I've done it ever since. BTW Cummins shows it as part of the oil change instructions on my motor home. My motto "If in doubt always overdo it" Never had a bearing failure in any car I've owned.
I imagine Cummins is building engines to last longer than the average $20k econobox that gets junked every 10 yrs. As you noted, their "best practice" service procedures include pre-charging. This step positively contribute to their avg engine lifecycles which approach 1 million miles. I see that as undeniable testimony.

My cars stop running when I choose to retire them from excess body rust caused by PA winter road salt, not when they begin drink oil excessively or show engine blowby. My last Lincoln engine had 300K miles on it when it got transplanted into a Mustang 5L track car to live a second life. The cylinders still had factory hone marks to the top, never rebuilt, just aftermarket heads installed to add HP. Oil pressure and consumption was unchanged since the day I bought the car new. I really don't pay extra to service my cars right.
12-13-2014 10:05 AM
wavsine
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lscman View Post
The vast majority of folks are oblivious to this issue. People, including professionals and backyard mechanics have been changing oil in the USA for over 100 yrs without pre-charging filters. However after working in the oil industry as a lubricant test engineer....and speaking with fellow subject matter experts who do engine lifecycle testing, I know better and do it religiously. The audible bearing rapping sound you can hear on start-up without pre-charging is metal-on-metal rod and main bearing contact with crank journals, caused by the lack of an oil film cushion. This increases wipe & journal wear and causes bearing pound-out. These are not things you want to do. This is why Ford put an S suffix on your oil filter part#, by the way. The non-silicone drain-back valves on older design filters cause the same issue (oil drain-back and starvation upon start-up). Horizontally-mounted filters can drain back up to 60% of their contents when parked for extended periods with a leaky oil drain-back valve and engineers decades ago deemed this to be totally unacceptable. Venture to guess why? Imagine what 100% drainback does. This is the situation you CREATE when you install an empty filter. Engine life is being reduced by a significant percentage each time, period. Accelerated cold start wear without this issue is bad enough. You can accept that risk every oil change start-up, I won't.

PS: I think filters are being reduced in size to partially address this issue. A bigger filter is wonderful thing but they will reduce engine life if you fail to pre-charge. With an empty FL-1A filter (the most popular biggie filter in the world), bearings may take a merciless beating for up to 10 seconds.

It takes about a minute to top off a vertically-mounted filter before screwing it on, zero mess, zero fuss. Filters installed at an angle (not vertical) are a bit trickier to install without a mess..but my brain seems to be able to handle it lol. If it sits at a 45 degree angle, fill it a bit over half way. If it's horizontal, fill it a little over 1/3 full.

Lower viscosity synthetic oils and tighter bearing clearances on modern engines don't alleviate this issue at all. If anything, the wiping affect (surface wear) on bearings due to starvation is WORSE than decades ago. Today's 5W-20 syn oils are not better for the engine than 20W-50 dino when the engine is running without oil pressure.
Agree 100%. Subaru boxer engines mount the filter upside down so no preload on those. Of course it doesn't matter on some of the newer Subarus because the oil consumption is so high the crankcase is empty before the next oil change if you don't add oil every time you buy gas.
12-13-2014 09:18 AM
Texaswiley I had a GTO in the mid 60's that would knock like crazy after an oil change (30w oil) To the point I would sometime panic, shut it off and recheck oil level. Precharging totally eliminated that. I've done it ever since. BTW Cummins shows it as part of the oil change instructions on my motor home. My motto "If in doubt always overdo it" Never had a bearing failure in any car I've owned.
12-13-2014 09:05 AM
Lscman
Quote:
Originally Posted by CourtneyNYC View Post
............I also, having changed oil in my own cars for well over 40 years, have never pre-charged an oil filter. I think, perhaps at one time, it had merit. But with the new oils we are now using I wouldn't worry too much. ...........
The vast majority of folks are oblivious to this issue. People, including professionals and backyard mechanics have been changing oil in the USA for over 100 yrs without pre-charging filters. However after working in the oil industry as a lubricant test engineer....and speaking with fellow subject matter experts who do engine lifecycle testing, I know better and do it religiously. The audible bearing rapping sound you can hear on start-up without pre-charging is metal-on-metal rod and main bearing contact with crank journals, caused by the lack of an oil film cushion. This increases wipe & journal wear and causes bearing pound-out. These are not things you want to voluntarily do when it's PREVENTABLE. This is why Ford put an S suffix on your oil filter part#, by the way. The non-silicone drain-back valves on older design filters cause the same issue (oil drain-back and starvation upon start-up). Horizontally-mounted filters can drain back up to 60% of their contents when parked for extended periods with a leaky oil drain-back valve and engineers decades ago deemed this to be totally unacceptable. Venture to guess why? Imagine what 100% drainback does. This is the situation you CREATE when you install an empty filter. Engine life is being reduced by a significant percentage each time, period. Accelerated cold start wear without this issue is bad enough. You can accept that risk every oil change start-up, I won't.

PS: I think filters are being reduced in size to partially address this issue. A bigger filter is wonderful thing but they will reduce engine life if you fail to pre-charge. With an empty FL-1A filter (the most popular biggie filter in the world), bearings after each oil change may take a merciless beating for up to 10 seconds.

It takes about a minute to top off a vertically-mounted filter before screwing it on, zero mess, zero fuss. Filters installed at an angle (not vertical) are a bit trickier to install without a mess..but my brain seems to be able to handle it lol. If it sits at a 45 degree angle, fill it a bit over half way. If it's horizontal, fill it a little over 1/3 full.

Lower viscosity synthetic oils and tighter bearing clearances on modern engines don't alleviate this issue at all. If anything, the wiping affect (surface wear) on bearings due to starvation is WORSE than decades ago. Today's 5W-20 syn oils are not better for the engine than 20W-50 dino when the engine is running without oil pressure due to the filter being empty.
10-31-2014 06:59 AM
felixthecat
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marine View Post
You miss anything Sailor? lol
Roger is always on top of it.
10-17-2014 08:15 PM
okaythen nice so the engine runs smoother isn't my imagination...

ok so the manual says per oil change you should inspect the following: engine cooling system strength and hoses, exhaust system and heat shields, half-shaft boots, steering linkage, ball joins and suspension parts. lub if necessary.

engine cooling system you just look at the gauge inside right, if it's normal. hoses I am not even sure which hoses are those but just inspect hoses for any cracking, looseness, holes in the hoses. exhaust sytem and heat shields you gotta really get under it and look at it. most of the time they shoiuld be fine you don't really need to inspect those right?

Now I am not sure where those are: steering linkage, ball joints, suspension and tie rod ends, lub if necessary. But I am going to look it up but again most of the time they should be fine? they rarely go wrong and even if I don't know what they are just check under the hood and see if everything is normal like before, check for anything loose, anything unusual , etc? I am not really sure how to do those visual inspections.

If something is going wrong/bad and I didn't know since I didn't change oil at dealer and they didn't perform those per oil change visual inspections. Warranty should still cover it right? or no..like engine cooling hoses, suspension parts what not.
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