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Thread: Ford Finds Itself in Court Over Fuel-Economy Claims Reply to Thread
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Topic Review (Newest First)
01-03-2013 06:59 AM
Darth_Focus I just read how the EPA runs the test the cars weight does not seem to enter the equation.
01-03-2013 12:05 AM
incubus625
Quote:
Originally Posted by FLYLOW View Post
Reading the little dash gauge is not the correct way to measure mpgs...
Where did I say I used the little dash gauge, lol. My HTML sucks, but you can still make out in the url that I attempted to post. I've been keeping track of my mpg on fuelly since I got the car.
01-02-2013 06:27 AM
whynotthinkwhynot My brand new 05 didn't get good fuel economy. Most brand new cars don't. After a short break in period, the economy improves. In Motortrend tests, this car got like 34 mpg. The Prius did not fare much better- if at all. When you drive the cars like that, you will get that sort of fuel economy.

The problem is people. We don't understand all the aspects of what we're talking about. I run into the same thing at work with engineers. They scratched their heads for days trying to figure out why some breakers were constantly tripping on a temporary cooling tower platform this past summer. They had us run all sorts of tests day in and day out, always with similar answers. Finally when we got tired of it, one of us dumb electricians told the engineer: You know, that power supply panel is out in the sunlight and its about 120F ambient temp out here, that's what's causing it to trip, not something wrong with the equipment.

The obvious missed point here: hybrids and especially plug-in hybrids weigh about 25% more than their engine only counterparts. This is going to reduce your fuel economy in town regardless of whether you're running on battery power or not. It's also going to make braking more of an issue.

I like the C-Max, and I'd get a plug-in version if I got one. It fits my wife's typical route best. We're still waiting. When I see things like this, I get giddy though, because I know resale values will go down, and the car will be more affordable to someone like me who understands that you don't get maximum fuel economy off the showroom floor.
01-01-2013 11:08 PM
6SPD_soul I agree with elsolo, EPA needs to revise their testing methodology to reflect real world conditions. Ford might well have followed EPA testing guidelines to get 47 MPG, but if so the cars were tuned only for that style of driving to get those numbers. This does Ford no good if real world conditions will always result in 10 MPG less, which is in my mind grounds for a lawsuit. Why build and advertise a car that can hit maximum EPA estimates if it's 10 MPG off in the real world? Ford screwed themselves with these overly optimistic numbers.

I think at this point, EPA guidelines are lax to allow manufacturers to get closer to hitting CAFE targets, which in turn allows big government to say it's "doing it's part" in regulating pollution.
01-01-2013 10:27 PM
elsolo The EPA is required to do the fuel economy estimates.
The manufacturers and dealers are required to display this information.

Why is the information WRONG across the board?
If you are going to mandate this info, you should have to provide valid info.

Here is some testing info, right from the EPA.
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"The city and highway tests are currently performed under mild climate conditions (75 degrees F) and include acceleration rates and driving speeds that EPA believes are generally lower than those used by drivers in the real world. Neither test is run while using accessories, such as air conditioning. The highway test has a top speed of 60 miles per hour, and an average speed of only 48 miles per hour.
Since the mid-1990s, EPA’s emissions certification program has required the use of three additional tests which capture a much broader range of real-world driving conditions, including high-speed, fast-acceleration driving, the use of air conditioning, and colder temperature operation (20 degrees F). These conditions affect not only the amount of air pollutants a vehicle emits, but also a vehicle’s fuel economy. However, these tests were not required to measure fuel economy."

(referring to the new 2007 testing methods, below)
Compared to today’s estimates, the city mpg estimates for the manufacturers of most vehicles will drop by about 12 percent on average, and by as much as 30 percent for some vehicles. The highway mpg estimates will drop on average by about 8 percent, and by as much as 25 percent for some vehicles

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Seems to me that the EPA knows it's estimates are wildly inaccurate, the manufacturers know it as well. But despite that, the government requires that this wildly inaccurate data be displayed, and manufacturers use it as a sales pitch. "not our fault we didn't do the estimates"

Rather than fix the testing methods, the EPA wastes resources trying to decide how to display the inaccurate information to you: MPG, gallons to go 100 miles, or annual expected fuel costs, or a star rating
01-01-2013 06:08 PM
felixthecat
Quote:
Originally Posted by cyfocus01 View Post
ESTIMATE MPG, they even say it on TV comercials.

too many ignorant people out there think everything in print is true, like it is set in stone.
Pretty much like all the warnings on everthing & I mean everthing, even stupid things. All it is is common sense stuff. Lot of sue happy people out there. As far as the estimated mpg's, I just use that as a ball park figure to compare other vechicles, like the Foci to its comp. Just a rough idea.
01-01-2013 02:10 PM
cyfocus01 ESTIMATE MPG, they even say it on TV comercials.

too many ignorant people out there think everything in print is true, like it is set in stone.
01-01-2013 01:37 PM
elsolo They need to overhaul the EPA estimate procedures.
I don't know how the EPA guesses at it, spherical Fords traveling trough a vacuum?

They are completely BS, and most manufacturers are getting sued over it now that fuel mileage is a major selling point.
01-01-2013 01:30 PM
FLYLOW
Quote:
Originally Posted by incubus625 View Post
But then you have cars like the fiesta. Its rated 29city 38 highway. Ive maintained lower to mid 40mpg with out trying. Ive been doing more city now with winter gas, avg mpg now is like 33. You think Ford would rate a non Hybrid higher?

<a href="http://www.fuelly.com/driver/rjs907/fiesta" target="_blank"><img src="http://badges.fuelly.com/images/sig-us/141266.png" width="500" height="63" alt="Fuelly" title="Share and compare MPG at Fuelly" border="0"/></a>
Reading the little dash gauge is not the correct way to measure mpgs...
01-01-2013 11:58 AM
cyfocus01 Geesh. This half the problem with our country.
Anyway, I think it says right on the window sticker "EPA ESTIMATE"!! And I am pretty sure there is some laguage that talks about variences as you all listed above.
We have all read MPG posts on here that go on for days about how to calculate and so forth, some people just need to pull their heads out.
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