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Topic Review (Newest First)
06-07-2013 11:54 AM
I_go_for_Gs There was a thread like this one almost 8 years ago on the Mustang forums. People(certain people) getting all up in arms because eveyone else was bashing their Amsoil. In that thread, many knowlegable people chimed in and it came to light that Amsoil was using an inferior base than Mobil 1 and Castrol Syntech. Especially Syntech 0w-50. That was the only oil made by Castrol that came from Germany. Since it has been 8 plus years, has Amsoil changed there formulation? This, I do not know and will not speculate. So if someone knows the answer, plus enlighten me.

As for only Amsoil being able to go the distance between oil changes, B S.

F-Body club of Toronto had a member do this experiment. He bought a new Camaro SS with the 5.7 LS1 motor. That vehicle had an oil capacity just shy of 6 liters.
The factory fill came with Mobil 1 5w-30. At 5000kms he changed his oil and filter with 5w-30 Mobil 1 and a Wix filter. At the 10k mark he only changed the Wix filter and topped up what he needed with Mobil 1 syn. Initially his oil analysis had the copper content high. Since it was a brand new engine, it was still being broken in. Fast forward 3 years and now at 35,000kms he did his last oil analysis and guess what. The Mobil 1 oil was still good enough to keep lubricating his engine. Also the copper content and all the other metals were stable. The filters did their job. So, after 7 oil change intervals, he bought all of 6 liters of Mobil 1 and 7 Wix filters. He used just less than 2 liters of Mobil 1 to top up. Don't believe this, google it.

What I got out of all these threads is to use what ever oil you like the best, but change the filters every 5-6K. I personally use whatever synthetic oil is on sale. I keep the oil for 12,000kms but I always change out with a Wix filter every 6,000kms.
06-07-2013 09:20 AM
jcw122
Quote:
Originally Posted by UnleashedBeast View Post
Kam,

Sometimes I wonder about you. Not able to see the forest for the trees. Here is where you are thinking short term.

1. My engine has only seen one oil change. How many times have your changed your oil since you have owned it? With only one oil change, that means the wear metal averages will be a touch higher until the filters are changed and a fresh fill poured in. The next fresh fill wear metal ppm averages will be ~50% less.

2. Over an average 200,000 mile ownership period, I would spend less money on oil than you will, and use a lubricant that is far superior to the Motorcraft you used in the past or Pennzoil Platinum you are currently using. There is no need to change the oil in this car using a bypass filtration system any more than once every 2 years (using Amsoil Signature Series). The cost will break down to ~$50.00 per year.

3. Your cost estimations above are all wrong, as you are not using preferred customer or dealer cost figures. You are using retail.

4. That engine would by wore out junk @ 200,000 miles with Motorcraft. HAHA!

In the end, do what YOU want to do with your car. Arguing on the internet isn't productive at all.
Unleashed, you don't have to get all poetic on us. I simply want to understand WHY this system works to extend engine life in a realistic situation that isn't based on simply looking at numbers that may or may not reflect real world wear, over a traditional system with more frequent oil changes. Please. If it really does cost more as I display below, maybe it's worth it, but I want to know WHY it works.


Here's the calculation with the correct bypass filter cost and system cost:

Bypass System (w/ Amsoil SS oil):
Oil: 200k/25k = 8 oil changes * (7qts * $10/qt) = $560
Filters (bypass): $30 * 8 = $320 (Fixed, based on discounted price plus a tad extra for assumed shipping costs)
Filters (car): $15 * 8 = $120
Bypass System Installation: $145 (I'm assuming you meant cost of the system, not to install it?)

Total Cost: $1145....still a lot more.
06-07-2013 09:18 AM
iAmTitanium
Quote:
Originally Posted by UnleashedBeast View Post
Kam,

Sometimes I wonder about you. Not able to see the forest for the trees. Here is where you are thinking short term.

1. My engine has only seen one oil change. How many times have your changed your oil since you have owned it? With only one oil change, that means the wear metal averages will be a touch higher until the filters are changed and a fresh fill poured in. The next fresh fill wear metal ppm averages will be ~50% less.

2. Over an average 200,000 mile ownership period, I would spend less money on oil than you will, and use a lubricant that is far superior to the Motorcraft you used in the past or Pennzoil Platinum you are currently using. There is no need to change the oil in this car using a bypass filtration system any more than once every 2 years (using Amsoil Signature Series). The cost will break down to ~$50.00 per year.

3. Your cost estimations above are all wrong, as you are not using preferred customer or dealer cost figures. You are using retail.

4. That engine would by wore out junk @ 200,000 miles with Motorcraft. HAHA!

In the end, do what YOU want to do with your car. Arguing on the internet isn't productive at all.
funny you say its closed minded to ask the question, I have to say I have seen many a 2001 or newer focus with over 200k that run just fine and there on motorcraft or a plethera of non blend or syn oils on regular intervals and they are all running just fine.
06-07-2013 09:12 AM
kam327
Quote:
Originally Posted by UnleashedBeast View Post
1. My engine has only seen one oil change. How many times have your changed your oil since you have owned it? With only one oil change, that means the wear metal averages will be a touch higher until the filters are changed and a fresh fill poured in. The next fresh fill wear metal ppm averages will be ~50% less.
The OCIs I am comparing are perfectly comparable. You changed your FF around 945 miles, I changed mine around 1,500. I then put 8k miles on the next oil, you put 10k miles. Those are the OCIs I am comparing. Therefore the wear metals I am comparing are apples to apples.

Quote:
Originally Posted by UnleashedBeast View Post
2. Over an average 200,000 mile ownership period, I would spend less money on oil than you will, and use a lubricant that is far superior to the Motorcraft you used in the past or Pennzoil Platinum you are currently using. There is no need to change the oil in this car using a bypass filtration system any more than once every 2 years (using Amsoil Signature Series). The cost will break down to ~$50.00 per year.
Please point out specifically where my calculation is wrong in showing that I'll spend less in oil. What is included in your $50 per year cost? If I were doing the 15k miles per year you seem to be doing I'd be doing two oil changes per year costing me about $45. This proves my point. Spending less money and my engine will still easily last to 200k miles (based on the hundreds of thousands of car engines that made it that long on inferior dino oil). And I suspect your $50 per year does not include the capital cost of the bypass system in the first place.

Quote:
Originally Posted by UnleashedBeast View Post
3. Your cost estimations above are all wrong, as you are not using preferred customer or dealer cost figures. You are using retail.
So how much are you paying and I'll revise my calc accordingly.

Quote:
Originally Posted by UnleashedBeast View Post
4. That engine would by wore out junk @ 200,000 miles with Motorcraft. HAHA!
I take it by the "HAHA!" you added that you know you're full of BS on this one.

Quote:
Originally Posted by UnleashedBeast View Post
In the end, do what YOU want to do with your car. Arguing on the internet isn't productive at all.
Obviously. But it's just so much fun isn't it?
06-07-2013 08:47 AM
UnleashedBeast Kam,

Sometimes I wonder about you. Not able to see the forest for the trees. Here is where you are thinking short term.

1. My engine has only seen one oil change. How many times have your changed your oil since you have owned it? With only one oil change, that means the wear metal averages will be a touch higher until the filters are changed and a fresh fill poured in. The next fresh fill wear metal ppm averages will be ~50% less.

2. Over an average 200,000 mile ownership period, I would spend less money on oil than you will, and use a lubricant that is far superior to the Motorcraft you used in the past or Pennzoil Platinum you are currently using. There is no need to change the oil in this car using a bypass filtration system any more than once every 2 years (using Amsoil Signature Series). The cost will break down to ~$50.00 per year.

3. Your cost estimations above are all wrong, as you are not using preferred customer or dealer cost figures. You are using retail.

4. That engine would by wore out junk @ 200,000 miles with Motorcraft. HAHA!

In the end, do what YOU want to do with your car. Arguing on the internet isn't productive at all.
06-07-2013 07:43 AM
kam327
Quote:
Originally Posted by jcw122 View Post
Sailor do you have any more information on exactly why this type of system works better in the mentioned systems than what I'll simply term a "traditional" system (for lack of better knowledge)? Why would more capacity and more filters extend engine life vs. more frequent oil changes in a normal system?
As I understand it the oil flow in a bypass system is much slower than in the car's primary oil system, and therefore more and/or smaller particles can be filtered out.

But yeah, I see more benefit (not being an engine expert myself) with more frequent oil changes with a good quality reasonably priced oil.

Here's my own cost assumptions comparing total oil change cost over 200,000 miles (someone correct me if I'm WAY off here):

Bypass System (w/ Amsoil SS oil):
Oil: 200k/25k = 8 oil changes * (7qts * $10/qt) = $560
Filters (bypass): $40 * 8 = $320 (totally guessing on the cost of these filters)
Filters (car): $15 * 8 = $120
Bypass System Installation: $200

Total Bypass System Cost: $1,200

Traditional System (w/ MC SynBlend $ MC filters):
Oil: 200k/7.5k = 27 oil changes * $18 (for MC 5qt jug) = $486
Filters (car): $4 * 27 = $108

Total Tradional System Cost: $594

So really you could double your traditional oil changes and reduce your OCI to 3,750 miles on synthetic blend oil, and it'll still cost less than a bypass system.
06-06-2013 11:26 PM
iAmTitanium
Quote:
Originally Posted by jcw122 View Post
Ok interesting, how does it realistically decrease wear? Sounds no different than changing oil more often.

Sent from my DROID BIONIC using FF Mobile
This is what Im wondering.


MB has had a 12k 1 year oil change interval forever, there engines do just fine just like that. So why increase and go to 24k miles and 2 years if you have to double the oil compacity basically paying for 2 oil changes at 1 time instead of 1 each time. Besides the half hour youd save not doing the 2nd oil change?
06-06-2013 10:41 PM
jcw122 ^^^Yeah this is why I don't understand the logic, but I have very little knowledge of engines.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sailor View Post
Interesting to see bypass filtration/oil sampling to determine change intervals in an automotive application.

This has been used quite a bit on over the road trucks, heavy equipment, stationary power units etc., all for diesels which have a higher particulate load issue to deal with.

In the "Big Rigs" I'm most familiar with, an actual "Oil Change" is seldom done when using these systems. Changing filters & adding make up oil is all that's usually necessary with testing done on a regular basis. (million milers out there with nary an oil change)

Usually on those, an "oil change" is only done when the oil analysis reveals an engine issue warranting repair (most often an internal leak that would have caused a larger issue if not caught by oil analysis)

It'll be interesting to see how long you can go with this system on an automobile...

Cheers!
Sailor do you have any more information on exactly why this type of system works better in the mentioned systems than what I'll simply term a "traditional" system (for lack of better knowledge)? Why would more capacity and more filters extend engine life vs. more frequent oil changes in a normal system?
06-06-2013 08:45 PM
kam327
Quote:
Originally Posted by UnleashedBeast View Post
Decreasing wear to the point that the engine will be in such good condition when the rest of the car rusts to the ground, you could still use it.
How do you figure? My recent UOA (link below) shows 16ppm of iron at 8k miles with plain ole Motorcraft Syn Blend. Yours shows 17ppm at 10k. But you have 50% more oil in your system to dilute the iron. I'd clearly have less iron in my oil if I had the large sump and went to 10k miles, without the need for spending 3 and a half times as much on the oil.

Similar for the copper; I only had 5, you have 8. I had 40% less copper despite having 33% less oil capacity to dilute it.

Seems like my engine's wearing less with Motorcraft and a PureOne filter.

http://www.focusfanatics.com/forum/s...1&postcount=23




Quote:
Originally Posted by UnleashedBeast View Post
The second benefit is only one oil change required every two years or ~20,000 to 25,000 miles using Amsoil Signature Series.
Even if that were true, I could change my oil almost 4 times during your single OCI for the same price of oil. Pretty sure my engine would be in better shape with 5k to 6k OCIs.

Quote:
Originally Posted by UnleashedBeast View Post
Currently, I am almost 13,000 miles on one oil change, and the UOA reports say that 35-40%, or longer, of oil life are still remaining. It will create the longest recorded oil change interval on a 2012+ Focus in the world (or that will be known about on this forum).
And by far the highest cost of an oil change (including the hundreds of dollars for the bypass system).
06-06-2013 08:56 AM
jcw122
Quote:
Originally Posted by UnleashedBeast View Post
Decreasing wear to the point that the engine will be in such good condition when the rest of the car rusts to the ground, you could still use it.

The second benefit is only one oil change required every two years or ~20,000 to 25,000 miles using Amsoil Signature Series.

Currently, I am almost 13,000 miles on one oil change, and the UOA reports say that 35-40%, or longer, of oil life are still remaining. It will create the longest recorded oil change interval on a 2012+ Focus in the world (or that will be known about on this forum).
Ok interesting, how does it realistically decrease wear? Sounds no different than changing oil more often.

Sent from my DROID BIONIC using FF Mobile
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