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DURATEC Ti-VCT Performance (2012-Current) The place to chat about any Duratec 2.0L Ti-VCT engine performance, tuning and exhaust related upgrades.

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Topic Review (Newest First)
Today 11:14 AM
Jburks
Quote:
Originally Posted by felixthecat View Post
I run a fwerks header w/ a 2.5 system & it sounds very similar to stock, yea it has a tad bit of header ting. I'm going to be at OSFW4 to see & hear my foci.
wish I could be there to hear it!
Today 10:52 AM
felixthecat
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jburks View Post
true but I am also considering noise. this is my daily, not a track car. I want it to be comfortable for everyday driving. I'm aware I could gain more horsepower by adding a header but is the few extra hp worth the extra noise? I don't know. there are not very many mk3's on this forum with a header so it's hard to tell. The whole point in me modifying my focus was to make it a better daily driver. for me that meant adding a few more whp and improving the suspension so doing a intake, tune and eventually a catback might be all I need to meet those goals.
I run a fwerks header w/ a 2.5 system & it sounds very similar to stock, yea it has a tad bit of header ting. I'm going to be at OSFW4 to see & hear my foci.
Today 08:33 AM
Jburks
Quote:
Originally Posted by FFhb13 View Post
Don't keep stock manifold, simple..it's restrictive, anyone that does an exhaust and cares about performance will upgrade the manifold because the system is only as good as the sum of it's parts..an intake and exhaust without a header is still leaving a restriction in, nullifying some of the gains of the intake and exhaust...just like people that upgrade headers and exhaust but leave their stock cat in, at 1.75" or whatever pipe to save money... making it 2.25" all the way makes a big difference
true but I am also considering noise. this is my daily, not a track car. I want it to be comfortable for everyday driving. I'm aware I could gain more horsepower by adding a header but is the few extra hp worth the extra noise? I don't know. there are not very many mk3's on this forum with a header so it's hard to tell. The whole point in me modifying my focus was to make it a better daily driver. for me that meant adding a few more whp and improving the suspension so doing a intake, tune and eventually a catback might be all I need to meet those goals.
Today 06:01 AM
AmericanCaveman
Quote:
Originally Posted by dyn085 View Post
Lol, you don't have to apologize for having an opinion. Maybe it will make more sense if I clarify my statement-

Primaries and secondaries (aka header[s]) absolutely can be too large and absolutely will change the powerband. That's basically the point of having them. A vehicle with no tuning or cam changes will see an improvement in one area of the tach with a reduction in another.

Beyond that, the sole intent is the evacuation of those spent gases. Stop the exhaust right there and you'll have the maximum power available. This is why most race cars have a dump or a short run to a side-exit. If it's a dump then is most likely a drag car because having those gases beneath the passenger compartment is no bueno.

Most of us can't/won't hack up our car to get those gases out in a faster fashion. The only alternative is to open the tubing diameter going out the rear of the car. Because the velocity increase that's necessary occurs within the primaries/secondaries, you're only limited by what physically fits or that you can afford.

If velocity in the CBE was so important, you would see people ceramic-coating them or wrapping them with header wrap. It's also worth noting that Gabe's 183 whp had come from a 3" exhaust after getting 175 whp on 2.5". But in equal fashion, I will also gladly change my stance if someone ever proves otherwise on the Duratec. If 2.5" was enough (or, at worst, too much) then there would have been no gains with the increase.

I would be inclined to believe there was a change in the header for this to occur.
I just don't want to seem like a know it all or anything, lol. I'm just here enjoying the forum and the conversations, like we're having now!

You are very correct about exhaust size affecting where the power goes to on the tach. Even with exhaust that was way too big for my 300 it at least made my I6 breathe better on the top end.

The only place I disagree with you on is the importance of a simple CBE (cat back exhaust, correct?). The reason being this is all I've done to my 300 (it already had the split EFI manifolds) and I seen a lot of good gains in performance and bad depending on what I did. Don't get me wrong, I know you're not saying a CBE is not important at all. I just think you may not realize how much power loss you can get when a CBE is done incorrectly.

Down the road I plan on doing a full CBE on my Focus and I probably will do the 2.50'' though. This is for two reasons. Everyone and their dog says it made a big difference in power, so I'm assuming there's something to it. Also for a more vain reason, I want the exhaust to sound deep. It's not like my 2.0 is rolling in gobs of low end torque as it is. I pretty much have to get out of the car and push it to get it going now, HAHA!

If I gain low end grunt from a 2.50'', I'll happily admit my theory was wrong about our two liters! And I readily will tell anyone all I have is theory with the 2.0 exhaust and not experience at the moment.


BTW, anyone who will tell you a 300 can't sound like a V-8 is full of beans!
Today 01:00 AM
dyn085
Quote:
Originally Posted by FFhb13 View Post
Wondering how many cars have you modified or driven because I have felt the negative effects of too large an exhaust in real world driving, I tend to believe these experiences rather then what is read in a book or on the internet. Car is much slower off the line then a similarly equipped stock vehicle, eventually the power comes back, and top end power/throttle response is better and the car will pull on the stock one, but in real world driving, who drives at high rpm all the time (besides ricers).


Quote:
Originally Posted by FFhb13 View Post
Are you implying that a header was responsible for torque loss, because I've never had that happen, except for a 4-1 race header, the dyno had a dip in torque and the loss was very minimal for sizable gains in mid to top end power and torque...all the 4-2-1 styles had increases in torque and power across the whole rpm range, albiet smaller overall gains then a 4-1.

After I get some dynos done, I'm not against trying out a 3" exhaust and seeing where the gains and losses are as long as it would be easy to remove and sell if I didn't like it.
By all means, do all the testing you want. I was here when the platform was released and watched or participated in nearly all of the growth. I have nothing to prove to you or anyone else and don't even own a Mk3 anymore.

I can relay my experience and what I've seen, but if that somehow translates to me not modifying enough cars...Idk what to tell you. My Mk3 was one of the most modified and recognized in the community when I had it, and I've since bought and taken both of my ST's to stage 3 and then began doing my own tuning. And no offense, but that's just the last three years.

I'm not perfect, but I don't have a very strong record of being wrong.
Yesterday 11:01 PM
FFhb13
Quote:
Originally Posted by dyn085 View Post
I would be inclined to believe there was a change in the header for this to occur.
Are you implying that a header was responsible for torque loss, because I've never had that happen, except for a 4-1 race header, the dyno had a dip in torque and the loss was very minimal for sizable gains in mid to top end power and torque...all the 4-2-1 styles had increases in torque and power across the whole rpm range, albiet smaller overall gains then a 4-1.

After I get some dynos done, I'm not against trying out a 3" exhaust and seeing where the gains and losses are as long as it would be easy to remove and sell if I didn't like it.
Yesterday 10:51 PM
FFhb13
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jburks View Post
that was my whole point in resurrecting this thread lol. I wanted to know if it was going from 2.5 inch to 3.0 that gave him that extra 8whp. also, would a three exhaust be beneficial without the header. I know Focusboy has the f2 header to go along with the 3in exhaust but by keeping the stock exhaust manifold would a 3in exhaust see the same gains or would a 2.5 be better?
Don't keep stock manifold, simple..it's restrictive, anyone that does an exhaust and cares about performance will upgrade the manifold because the system is only as good as the sum of it's parts..an intake and exhaust without a header is still leaving a restriction in, nullifying some of the gains of the intake and exhaust...just like people that upgrade headers and exhaust but leave their stock cat in, at 1.75" or whatever pipe to save money... making it 2.25" all the way makes a big difference
Yesterday 10:47 PM
FFhb13
Quote:
Originally Posted by RonMaiden View Post
I've seen a couple dynoed Hondas "upgrade" their exhaust to a 3" system and did see a gain in peak hp but peak torque was lower at the same rpm.
I've had buddies do that with their hondas/acuras and I laughed because they were obnoxiously loud with the massive 5" fart cannon muffler...all that noise and I would smoke them in a stock car easily until they got the revs way up then they would finally start pulling
Yesterday 10:44 PM
FFhb13
Quote:
Originally Posted by dyn085 View Post
No, it's not. CBE does not affect power in that manner, primaries/secondaries do. All a CBE does is get the exhaust out beyond the body and is a case of diminishing gains, i.e.-it will either cost too much for the materials/vs gain or it won't physically fit. The whole concept that a CBE can be too big to somehow shift the power band is an old-wives tale. You can have too small but the inverse is not true.

Wondering how many cars have you modified or driven because I have felt the negative effects of too large an exhaust in real world driving, I tend to believe these experiences rather then what is read in a book or on the internet. Car is much slower off the line then a similarly equipped stock vehicle, eventually the power comes back, and top end power/throttle response is better and the car will pull on the stock one, but in real world driving, who drives at high rpm all the time (besides ricers).
Yesterday 08:15 PM
Jburks that was my whole point in resurrecting this thread lol. I wanted to know if it was going from 2.5 inch to 3.0 that gave him that extra 8whp. also, would a three exhaust be beneficial without the header. I know Focusboy has the f2 header to go along with the 3in exhaust but by keeping the stock exhaust manifold would a 3in exhaust see the same gains or would a 2.5 be better?
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