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Topic Review (Newest First)
10-25-2013 01:07 AM
amc49 I myself wonder just how much chatter goes on with the outside oil pump housing not supporting the outer rotor for about 1/3 OD. Other pumps with same type rotors can run over 10,000 rpm and no trouble there. If inside rotor bangs around in play and makes outside do the same, could easily dig in to shatter parts in the looseness because part of OD is missing. An extra clearance as well to add to trouble since inner rotor must slide on crank. Most other pumps are pressed on shaft there, or 30% less looseness. Pump also discharges the bypass amount directly into feed, which is totally wrong to me, it distorts flow pattern doing that and by doing so would make cavitation easier. Add the cover plate which can leak air in at higher rpm and problems there. Seen it before on other engines. I might look to radius the edge where outer rotor drops off if sharp cut there to kill any dig-in edge. I would also be sealing plate to pump with gasket sealer of some sort.
10-05-2013 08:14 PM
Folis Jones I agree completely. We used to use the CFM gears and never had a problem. In fact I still have a set. I have a Massive Speed System "ultimate Head" with Crower stage 2 cams, Eagle rods, and SuperTech pistons. Yes, you need the head and other stuff to make power at high rpm's. Not to mention you need a dyno and a good tuner.
To get power you need cubic dollars, as the hot rodders used to say......

Folis
10-05-2013 08:09 PM
Folis Jones What dictates if you should have a dry sump?

I have a full race Zetec, 230 hp at the flywheel. We turn 8000+ on the track and found a stock pump will disintegrate and this is no urban legend.

A dry sump kit is not cheap! We have over $3000 in the installation we are currently working on, it is specific for the Zetec and not a "generic" one. The generic ones are a nightmare and do not fit real well. If you are turning over 7000 rpm you must dry sump or risk, as we did, a total melt down due to oil pump failure. The CFM gears are no longer available from any one so you have no choice if you are turning high rpm's. Believe me, I have researched this thoroughly. I have a Lotus Seven replica that routinely eats up Corvettes and Porches, except the full race ones. But it takes 8000+ rpm in fifth gear to do it. I have a Quaife sequential gearbox.

Any questions feel free to email me off line.

Cheers,

Folis
11-02-2012 12:39 PM
iminhell I do 8K on the CFM gear.
But bear in mind this isn't sustained RPM, just a very short burst.

And this high RPM most talk about, most of you aren't making any power up there anyways. So it's kinda irrelevant. Curious is fine and all, but you have to know that a stock engine/head isn't going to make power past 5.5K too well. You'll need a good head and cams to make power past that point and need the extra RPM.
11-02-2012 12:15 PM
CotyM Hmm, thanks... It sounds nice to have that there for an insurance option... I'd imagine an engine moving that fast would need bigger intake valves/forced induction to make any power there...
11-01-2012 07:47 AM
Magus2727 A Tom has said with the only after market oil pump available for our car the billet gears your still only to 7,700 to 7,800 RPM.

The Oil pump is still the "main" thing, however you start getting valve floating if you don't have upgraded valve springs.

Also their is not much point because even with built motors the Zetec, while it likes high revs, does not do much above 7k. it like the 5k to 6.5k, and takes a fair amount of work to make it make power longer. Either through turbo or some, IMHO, radical NA modifications.

The reason why I was looking for a "better" pump was not to take it over 7,400 RPM but so when I take it to the track and I downshift a little to soon and I peg and or hold it at the 7,400 RPM for a few seconds. Its mostly an insurance option.
11-01-2012 12:50 AM
1turbofocus Even with the billet gears I wouldnt go past 77-7800

Tom
10-31-2012 07:17 PM
CotyM I have a 2000 ford shop manuel, it says "Speed limitation" is at 7100 rpm...

If I could rev to 7400rpm without having trouble with oil pump, what could I rev if I used an aftermarket pump that could take more revs? And what is the next weak link?

I'm not really looking to do so only curious...
10-29-2012 03:40 PM
amc49 Like a Focus engine could ever be any different from all the hundred others, LOL. You see of course Ford in their infinite wisdom used a bit of the tech by using the windage section to begin with. Meaning THEY seem to think the ideas work even on Focus motors. It would be utterly stupid to use supposed 'energy saving' 5W-20 oil and then not try to control some oil throwing around in the crankcase, it's about gas mileage too.

He is absolutely right on the rest of it gentlemen, those tricks are for the super throwdown last nickel in it guy with 'trickitis' who wants absolutely everything he can get and willing to suffer engine blowups to get it. On the outer edge nothing comes easy or without cost. If you drive on the street at all you are not that guy. Just thought I'd show how ridiculous it can get, believe me, it's worse than that.

While 1turbo and I have our days he seems to know very well what the easy power is versus the hard. Once you cross that line you are talking endless work for very little more result and much more potential breakage.

'go have fun'...........I like that. I think about all the expensive stuff we blew up trying to do certain extreme things. Wasn't no fun then. It's so much better to carry a car to maybe only 1/2 of what can be done to it to make good power but not the ultimate. You get so much more enjoyment time out of your work and result.
10-29-2012 08:09 AM
cody.carr Somewhat off topic. but do you know the size of the windage tray bolts?
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