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Topic Review (Newest First)
10-04-2012 09:42 PM
Hodge Podge
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kabigon View Post
With TC off, the throttle/RPM limit is the same for all gears (S, D, and R).

I doubt that there is launch control for reverse but everyone can draw their own conclusions.
Launch control for reverse. HA!!

It would be so bizarre if it worked that it would actually be cool!

Maybe in a slightly screwy redneck way, but still cool.
Joe Redneck - "Bet yer fancy I-tal-yun sports car can't do this!!"

And who knows, in 20 years, it could be useful...
"It's demolition derby night at the fairgrounds, and reverse is the gear of choice."
10-04-2012 07:39 PM
MyThIc3LiTe
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kabigon View Post
With TC off, the throttle/RPM limit is the same for all gears (S, D, and R).

I doubt that there is launch control for reverse but everyone can draw their own conclusions.
Well, we have a nice byproduct of 'BOA' cause it ends up giving better launches then just flooring the throttle at a stop.
10-04-2012 07:02 PM
Kabigon
Quote:
Originally Posted by MyThIc3LiTe View Post
Except for the fact that when you put it into S, turn off TC, brake + throttle it holds at 2700rpm.
With TC off, the throttle/RPM limit is the same for all gears (S, D, and R).

I doubt that there is launch control for reverse but everyone can draw their own conclusions.
10-04-2012 01:36 AM
MyThIc3LiTe
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kabigon View Post
Actually, it is not launch control, BOA, or in fact any kind of unusual side effect.

As I tried (rather unsuccessfully) to point out in a previous post, the accel, clutches, and brakes are simply operating normally.

1) With your foot firmly on the brake pedal, the brakes are applied and the clutches are disengaged. (this is NORMAL operation)

2) When you release your foot from the brake pedal and *any* gear is selected, the car will start to move as one of the clutches engage. (this is NORMAL operation)

So far, we have established that the brakes and clutches are operating as they would in normal everyday driving.
...but what about the throttle?

3) When you press the accel pedal to the floor and no load is applied to the engine, the electronic throttle will limit the RPMs to ~3500 (I'm not certain if the RPM depends on engine type or PCM calibration). It *does not matter* if the transmission is in P, R, N, D, S, or L. (this is NORMAL operation)
Except for the fact that when you put it into S, turn off TC, brake + throttle it holds at 2700rpm.

Your 3500rpm is just the natural rev limiter ALL cars have but when you do that same procedure on the Focus it holds at 2700rpm.

Aka launch sweet spot.

If it held at 3500 as simply a rev protector it would make for useless launches.
10-04-2012 12:50 AM
Kabigon
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hodge Podge View Post
Maybe it is a convenient side effect of the BOA function or some other feature, but it sure acts like a typical launch control system.
Actually, it is not launch control, BOA, or in fact any kind of unusual side effect.

As I tried (rather unsuccessfully) to point out in a previous post, the accel, clutches, and brakes are simply operating normally.

1) With your foot firmly on the brake pedal, the brakes are applied and the clutches are disengaged. (this is NORMAL operation)

2) When you release your foot from the brake pedal and *any* gear is selected, the car will start to move as one of the clutches engage. (this is NORMAL operation)

So far, we have established that the brakes and clutches are operating as they would in normal everyday driving.
...but what about the throttle?

3) When you press the accel pedal to the floor and no load is applied to the engine, the electronic throttle will limit the RPMs to ~3500 (I'm not certain if the RPM depends on engine type or PCM calibration). It *does not matter* if the transmission is in P, R, N, D, S, or L. (this is NORMAL operation)
10-04-2012 12:35 AM
Kabigon
Quote:
Originally Posted by suss6052 View Post
Well from the various articles I've read its supposed to shut the throttle entirely on all DBW Fords since 2010 and started in 2004/2005.

E.X. http://www.thecarconnection.com/news...e-new-standard

"Ford

Ford began migrating brake-throttle override, or Brake Over Accelerator (BOA), as the automaker calls it, in 2004 and the first product it appeared on was the 2005 Ford Escape Hybrid. By the end of calendar year 2010, it was implemented on nearly 100 percent of Ford and Lincoln light-duty models (excluding select low volume vehicles, such as certain trucks with a Cummins diesel engine). Owners of these trucks may not want BOA because they are backing up trailers or putting boats in the water, etc.

Brake Over Accelerator is a Ford-designed system. It is on manual and automatic transmission vehicles and operates the same. BOA is also on Ford hybrid and electric vehicles but operates a little bit differently than conventional powertrain vehicles. The system works the same way but the software calibration is a little different.

The BOA system monitors the accelerator pedal and the brake pedal position. If it senses brake pedal application and accelerator position not changing (for example, the accelerator is stuck or trapped), the electronic throttle is driven closed to idle position by the powertrain control module. As the throttle is driven closed, the brake force acts on the vehicle and it slows down—to a complete stop if the driver continues to apply the brakes.

Ford says that the system acts “very quickly.” When the brake is released, the system resumes normal operations, but the throttle is ramped back to the requested pedal position to allow a controllable acceleration. It also works in reverse."
The strategy used on various models may not be consistent for a number of reasons.

In any case, blasman confirmed the strategy used in the Focus with the DCT:

The clutches are disengaged and the throttle is limited to a "no load" condition.
10-04-2012 12:15 AM
suss6052
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kabigon View Post
Where is the BOA strategy for the Focus documented?
Well from the various articles I've read its supposed to shut the throttle entirely on all DBW Fords since 2010 and started in 2004/2005.

E.X. http://www.thecarconnection.com/news...e-new-standard

"Ford

Ford began migrating brake-throttle override, or Brake Over Accelerator (BOA), as the automaker calls it, in 2004 and the first product it appeared on was the 2005 Ford Escape Hybrid. By the end of calendar year 2010, it was implemented on nearly 100 percent of Ford and Lincoln light-duty models (excluding select low volume vehicles, such as certain trucks with a Cummins diesel engine). Owners of these trucks may not want BOA because they are backing up trailers or putting boats in the water, etc.

Brake Over Accelerator is a Ford-designed system. It is on manual and automatic transmission vehicles and operates the same. BOA is also on Ford hybrid and electric vehicles but operates a little bit differently than conventional powertrain vehicles. The system works the same way but the software calibration is a little different.

The BOA system monitors the accelerator pedal and the brake pedal position. If it senses brake pedal application and accelerator position not changing (for example, the accelerator is stuck or trapped), the electronic throttle is driven closed to idle position by the powertrain control module. As the throttle is driven closed, the brake force acts on the vehicle and it slows down—to a complete stop if the driver continues to apply the brakes.

Ford says that the system acts “very quickly.” When the brake is released, the system resumes normal operations, but the throttle is ramped back to the requested pedal position to allow a controllable acceleration. It also works in reverse."
10-04-2012 12:09 AM
Hodge Podge Maybe it is a convenient side effect of the BOA function or some other feature, but it sure acts like a typical launch control system. If it really is the accidental side-effect of some other feature though, someone in Ford marketing is probably going "Damn, we could have advertised that!!"

On a more serious note, I was under the impression that it required "S" mode to be engaged and traction control to be disabled (selected "Off", not fuse pulled, etc..), but apparently that may be incorrect.

Anyone with a non "S" transmission tried to use this "nameless" feature?

And now the less serious side thoughts:
The car was designed to be able to handle stop & go rush-hour traffic...think about it...800~1000rpm, engage, disengage, repeat, repeat, repeat.
Really think one controlled 2500~3000rpm launch is going to hurt it? It's a 2.0...it's not at peak anything yet...
10-04-2012 12:00 AM
Kabigon
Quote:
Originally Posted by MyThIc3LiTe View Post
Then the revs would stay UNDER 1k if this was BOA...
Quote:
Originally Posted by suss6052 View Post
The brake override is supposed to cut the throttle entirely, so that doesn't seem right.

Where is the BOA strategy for the Focus documented?
10-03-2012 10:25 PM
blasman
Quote:
Originally Posted by PratoN View Post
Maybe it's also dependent on speed or if the car is in gear?
Well, on my way home from work I was driving at a nice constant 40MPH. I then pushed on the brake. At first the car started to slow and I could feel the engine trying to fight it. After some more pressure on the brake, DCT clutch disengaged. I gave it more gas and the RPM's held at about 3500-3600. It never dropped to idle... I did this a couple of times to confirm, I'm not in the mood to abuse my car too much, this is the first time I tried it. Now back to my lazy driving style. I'm enjoying the hand calculated 40.1 MPG the past 2 tanks...
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