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Thread: 6-Speed PowerShift - 2013 Any Better? Reply to Thread
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Topic Review (Newest First)
03-19-2013 06:02 PM
Cleric670
Quote:
This article summed it up for me: http://media.ford.com/article_displa...rticle_id=2574
I think the description in that article is only pertaining to a traditional hydraulic automatic since they control those shiftpoints and firmness by throttling the hudraulic pressure in the throttle body via solenoids (hydraulic controller). I seriously HOPE they aren't trying to control shift firmness in a manual transmission the only real way to do so is slipping the clutch thus reducing it's life.

Quote:
The only Ford I had actually legally owned was a 2003 CVPI, but for a time I was responsible for daily driving my grandmothers 1999 Ford Taurus, and before that I was driving my Father's 98 that blew up the transmission at 106k, and was never quite right again after the rebuild. The tach on that car would shoot up to 6k and it would not shift properly until you let off the throttle near the end of its days with us.
That sounds like a faulty rebuild, either got a ton of junk in the TX throttle body, possibly reused filter or used a bad filter, or used inferior materials / damaged something and it was eating itself thus clogging the filter or torque converter or hydraulic clutches or hydraulic controller. :(
03-19-2013 05:15 PM
rick217
Quote:
Originally Posted by suss6052 View Post
Since I have no connection to the people who designed, tested or built the car I can't say I know 100% how they operate. So I won't give them a free pass either, but I will say that so far *gently taps on the soft touch dash* the DCT hasn't given me any issues even in heavy traffic, but I do try and keep space around the car, which isn't always possible.

I have more concerns with why a badge wasn't properly attached which cost the company around $41 in warranty repair work so far, or why the heated seats don't seem to get very warm on their hottest setting.

The DCT is presumed to be a fly in the ointment, but I would feel this way if they had instead used the conventional 6F35 as I do not give their Van Dyke Assembly plant a free pass because they have built the majority of the shoddy FWD transmissions that Ford had used since the 1980s.

The primary reason I got the automatic this time was that the car only came equipped as such in the U.S. in this trim level and color.

If I was willing to go with grey or silver I might have ended up with an SE sport 5-speed hatch or sedan as rear disk brakes and alloy wheels were on the must have list, but so too was the specific paint color, Frosted Glass, which really narrowed down the options to the SEL (sedan or hatch), since that was the only permutation that allowed for this.

I was half torn towards going for a much more basic model and nearly paying for the whole thing up front in cash since I was putting down such a large down payment anyway.

The only Ford I had actually legally owned was a 2003 CVPI, but for a time I was responsible for daily driving my grandmothers 1999 Ford Taurus, and before that I was driving my Father's 98 that blew up the transmission at 106k, and was never quite right again after the rebuild. The tach on that car would shoot up to 6k and it would not shift properly until you let off the throttle near the end of its days with us.

My Crown vic was an ex taxi and ex city of Chicago cop car so it had been beaten to hell, but it was meant to be a project car that never got finished before I had to get rid of it.

Didn't Livonia built some of the infamous tansmissions in the early Taurus models that had problems with the weak torque converters?
03-19-2013 04:31 PM
PratoN
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cleric670 View Post
As far as i can tell the "adaptive learning" on the DCT is simply the computer learning the tolerances of the clutch and shift motors to optimize shifting so it knows how FAST it can operate the clutch and shifting in relation to one another. The preprogrammed defaults have much slower clutch and shift response and it gets quicker as it "learns" how fast it can do the two.

Unfortunately the software seems to be total garbage on certain vehicles and the default mode works more reliably with less grinding.
This article summed it up for me: http://media.ford.com/article_displa...rticle_id=2574

But it mentions "driving style" - which is what throws everyone off. I could see how me driving like a grandma all the time, the computer would say "Hey, he wants slushbox-esque shifts all the time." and then my clutch(es) falls apart because it's disengaging them too slowly.

But I have no proof that that's what "driving style" means. It could just mean I don't have the pedal to the floor at that point in time - not that it remembers how I drive (which would be horrid for a car with multiple drivers like rentals).


EDIT: Maybe this is better, it doesn't mention the dry clutch, but it does mention the UK wet clutch system(s):

Quote:
The TCM incorporates sophisticated, adaptive learning procedures. After the prescribed running-in period the transmission will provide optimum gear shifting smoothness for all conditions irrespective of terrain or driver input. The transmission will adapt to perform within its optimum window of operation to always provide maximum smoothness when changing gear, irrespective of the mode selected.
http://media.ford.com/article_displa...ticle_id=34131
03-19-2013 04:03 PM
Cleric670 As far as i can tell the "adaptive learning" on the DCT is simply the computer learning the tolerances of the clutch and shift motors to optimize shifting so it knows how FAST it can operate the clutch and shifting in relation to one another. The preprogrammed defaults have much slower clutch and shift response and it gets quicker as it "learns" how fast it can do the two.

Unfortunately the software seems to be total garbage on certain vehicles and the default mode works more reliably with less grinding.
01-31-2013 01:50 PM
Dib52 2013 Titanium for us. I've waited to post on a lot of the topics here because I wanted to get a good feel for the car with some quality miles under it. We're just a bit over the 2500mi mark and things seem pretty good. At first, the car did the little "stutter" with the trans but it has smoothed out. I was paranoid at first and after reading the horror stories here, but happy to report that all seems well. I guess only time will tell...
On a side note... our's has the "click, click, whoosh" sounds waiting to fire up or after turning off and opening the door that has been discussed on the forum. We've just learned to live with it. I guess "normal" is a relative term.
Unrelated to the DCT, our Focus has developed the left front rattle during slow speed maneuvers transitioning between pavements that is a hot topic here. Guess Ford hasn't quite figured that out yet for the 2013's. At least now I know where to look.
01-31-2013 01:39 PM
kam327
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kabigon View Post
The DCT "learns" nothing about the driver.
This is just a recurring myth.
Does any transmission "learn" from the driver?
01-31-2013 01:22 PM
Kabigon
Quote:
Originally Posted by kam327 View Post
And the extent of driver-adaptability of the software is a hotly debated question. The most I've ever found in a Ford document was that it's designed to monitor driving habits (e.g. usual rate of acceleration) and fine tune the operation over the long term to accommodate (e.g. faster shifts).
The DCT "learns" nothing about the driver.
This is just a recurring myth.
01-31-2013 12:36 PM
PratoN
Quote:
Originally Posted by kam327 View Post
The software should be fully capable of engaging the clutch appropriately regardless of the driver flooring it to get out of the way of a semi or feathering it to maximize fuel economy.
Agreed. I think this is an issue. I drive almost ALL highway miles. During the summer, after a 50 mile drive congestion-free drive I hit the downtown Milwaukee traffic. All of a sudden the car starts lunging and grinding because it had become to used to my grandma-esque driving so when I need it to get its shit together and drive like a manual, it can't.

EDIT: Though, this might just be due to the fact that my clutch finally heats up after x miles of driving, so when I do finally need to shift it starts acting crazy because it's just a bad clutch.
01-31-2013 11:44 AM
kam327
Quote:
Originally Posted by flyboyike View Post
Sorry, didn't notice the date. Henceforth I will only respond to posts made in the previous ninety-six hours or less. I did notice, however, that you didn't actually answer my question.
I thought I did. More clear: No it shouldn't ignore the driver, but it also should not engage the clutch in such a way as to induce shudder just because the driver (or a new driver borrowing the car) does something slightly differently than 1 minute ago. Or in my case, because the driver does the same thing he's always done. The software should be fully capable of engaging the clutch appropriately regardless of the driver flooring it to get out of the way of a semi or feathering it to maximize fuel economy.
01-31-2013 11:34 AM
flyboyike
Quote:
Originally Posted by kam327 View Post
Wow, delving back to a post 5 months ago. Ancient history. But I think I was thinking that a DCT should not shudder violently or grind in any way because of the way any given driver is depressing the accelerator. My shuddering has come and gone several times with no change in my driving style so I know based on my own experience that the shuddering was not caused by driver error. It had to be the software.

And the extent of driver-adaptability of the software is a hotly debated question. The most I've ever found in a Ford document was that it's designed to monitor driving habits (e.g. usual rate of acceleration) and fine tune the operation over the long term to accommodate (e.g. faster shifts). Therefore if wifey borrows the husband's commuter and drives completely differently, it won't all of a sudden start shuddering and grinding.
Sorry, didn't notice the date. Henceforth I will only respond to posts made in the previous ninety-six hours or less. I did notice, however, that you didn't actually answer my question.
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