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Topic Review (Newest First)
02-03-2014 11:56 PM
rebelx Can anyone comment on the PZEV engine Focuses?

I was under the impression that we have a choice of what type of engine to buy if we buy a new Focus and while PZEV is rarer, it is apparently the same cost and has a longer warranty. And theoretically, from what I've read, seems to also give great MPG?
02-03-2014 11:12 PM
suss6052
Quote:
Police have rebuilt a specially modified highway patrol car that suffered catastrophic engine damage when it was filled with the wrong fuel late last year.

The Ford Falcon-based FPV GT required significant repairs after an officer apparently filled it with E10 fuel that the NSW government mandated as part of a push for cleaner emissions.

NSW Police built the special Falcon GT as part of its 150th anniversary celebrations.

The hot-rodded car has 400kW of power, well more than the 335kW maximum available to Ford customers.

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The GT was the most powerful Australian police car when it went into service, though it has now been surpassed by a 430kW Holden HSV GTS also run by NSW Police.

Fairfax Media understands that an officer filled the Ford with E10 fuel – a blend of 90 per cent regular unleaded and 10 per cent ethanol - as opposed to the high octane juice recommended by Ford.

The NSW government has effectively abolished regular unleaded and encourages drivers to use E10, claiming it is “cheaper, cleaner and greener” and that “most NSW cars that use [unleaded fuels] can safely use 10 per cent ethanol-blended fuel (E10)”.

It’s understood the misfuelling cracked the block of the 5.0-litre supercharged V8 engine, something that could have cost upwards of $5000 to repair.

Superintendent Stuart Smith, operations commander for NSW highway patrol says he was “extremely disappointed” that the car was off the road for several weeks.

“An individual put the wrong fuel in it,” Smith says.

“From time to time we have errors made by staff.

“Some damage has been done to the engine. It has been repaired.”

Officers primarily use the V8-powered machine for public relations purposes. The car is often displayed at events including V8 Supercars and drag race meetings.
http://smh.drive.com.au/motor-news/e...204-31y86.html
02-03-2014 10:34 PM
cessna1 An friend that designs ethanol plants and has spent big $$$ in Detroit testing different blend % of ethanol sent these two videos. Toward the end of both is especially interesting.
Ethanol Blending Value Video

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pIc-r...ature=youtu.be

Small Engine Issues Video

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yNk4A...ature=youtu.be
11-10-2013 12:56 PM
cessna1 Found some more info on running 93 oct E10 vs adding E85 to make it E65. Notice what knocked and what didn't and also timing. suss, hopefully you're reading this.

Here is some information from the 1/4 mile testing of the 2014 Silverado with gasoline and then E85. Some of the chassis dyno comparison tests were done on the same day but the acceleration tests were done on different days so they aren't exact apples to apples comparisons (see the IAT differences for example).

The engine appears to run a little more spark (1.5 degrees peak, 1.7 degrees average) and run a little leaner (0.6 average and 0.5 peak in terms of lambda, not AFR of course). With the added fuel volume and the DI they may also be getting adding charge cooling benefits.

Gasoline:
9% alcohol content
Maximum timing: 21.5 degrees
Average for entire run timing: 17.2 degrees
Max lambda: 0.83
Average lambda: .79
Max airflow: 264.7 gps
Avg airflow: 209 gps
Max MAP: 98 kPa
Avg MAP: 95 kPa
Max ECT: 107 deg C
Avg ECT: 102 deg C
Max IAT: 36
Avg IAT: 34


E85:
65% alcohol content
Maximum timing: 23.0 degrees
Average for entire run timing: 18.9 degrees
Max lambda: 0.89
Average lambda: .84
Max airflow: 273.6 gps
Avg airflow: 218 gps
Max MAP: 98 kPa
Avg MAP: 96 kPa
Max ECT: 102 deg C
Avg ECT: 99 deg C
Max IAT: 29
Avg IAT: 27

Also, two of four gasoline runs showed knock during the acceleration test (including the fastest run). Neither of the E85 runs showed knock during the acceleration tests (only did 2 runs with E85 since they were so similar). Interesting to note that when not at high throttle angles the ECM shows a lot of knock with either fuel.
11-09-2013 01:47 PM
VonKaiser
Quote:
Originally Posted by cessna1 View Post
Taking advantage of the í14 modelís Flex Fuel capabilities, LPE dumped in some E85 and repeated its tests. The on-board sensor read 65% ethanol content, with 1/8 tank of E10 diluting the mixture, when the dyno read 321hp and 355 lb-ft of torque. This certainly seems in line with GMís 380hp crank horsepower rating when using E85 (355hp on gasoline) as well as the subsequent acceleration tests.

http://www.gmhightechperformance.com...#ixzz2k9DVO8V6
That is some serious gains. The 0-60 dropped almost a half second. So does this mean the truck computer is programmed lean for fuel economy on standard petrol?
11-09-2013 10:13 AM
cessna1 Taking advantage of the ’14 model’s Flex Fuel capabilities, LPE dumped in some E85 and repeated its tests. The on-board sensor read 65% ethanol content, with 1/8 tank of E10 diluting the mixture, when the dyno read 321hp and 355 lb-ft of torque. This certainly seems in line with GM’s 380hp crank horsepower rating when using E85 (355hp on gasoline) as well as the subsequent acceleration tests.

http://www.gmhightechperformance.com...#ixzz2k9DVO8V6
11-09-2013 09:10 AM
IngotMK3 Testing out my 1st tank of E85 - it was 2.71 here.
11-08-2013 06:10 PM
VonKaiser
Quote:
Originally Posted by suss6052 View Post
There is a 1 cent per mile cost difference at 19 mpg on E85 vs E10 93 octane at 25 mpg.

That gap widens to 2 cents per mile more if you were getting 19 mpg on E85 but 27 mpg on E10 93 even at $0.60 cents more per gallon for E10.

At 25 mpg on premium E10 at a cost of $3.29/gallon your cost per mile is $0.132 cents per mile, where as at 19 mpg on E85 your cost per mile is $0.142 cents per mile. So already it's costing you an extra cent per mile running E85 in that case.

At 27 mpg that E10 costs you just $0.122 per mile vs $0.135 per mile at 20 mpg on E85.

Either way you're spending far more time at the gas station on E due to the reduced range, and in other scenarios where E85 costs roughly 20 cents less than regular or premium fuel the situation gets even worse for those running E85 if the MPG hit is really 6.5 MPG or 25% of your average mileage on E10 premium (25+27/2=26 vs 19+20/2=19.5).
Thank you for doing the maths for me. :)

I'll keep using it with only a tiny extra cost unless I go on a roadtrip so I will have a longer tank range. Now if the price of E85 goes up or normal petrol goes down it wouldn't make that much sense unless I pay the extra price for slightly better throttle response.
11-06-2013 03:04 PM
Romans5.8
Quote:
Originally Posted by suss6052 View Post
Again E85 doesn't have a super high octane rating.

Pure ethanol has an aki (RON+MON)/2 rating of around 100.

Depending on what octane rating the 15% gasoline has E85 generally has an AKI rating of 94-96 or marginally higher than E10 premium fuel at 93 AKI.

Generally you never see the octane rating listed for E85 since they don't want you to know that they are using a variable product.

Any pump claiming 110+ octane for E85 is talking about the marginal blending value of Ethanol.
For sure.

But, that 94-96 (in the SUMMER, it's lower in the winter at many pumps) is higher than the 93, or even 91 or 89 available elsewhere (I've been places where the pumps run 85, 87, and 89. Especially at high altitudes.) So if you are running crazy amounts of boost or compression and are forced to retard ignition due to knocking, it could be advantageous then, as it would allow you to advance timing to take advantage of that compression/boost.

But again, it all comes back to a need for people to understand what the Anti-Knock Index (aka Octane) really is. It's NOT cleaner, better performing, higher power, or any of that. It simply resists knock. If your engine isn't knocking, it won't benefit from higher octane fuel. The EXCEPTION to that, and why there are Dyno results showing more performance with higher octane fuels, is the advent of the 'Knock Sensor'. It detects knocking from lower octane fuel and adjusts timing and other variables to prevent it. It effectively 'detunes'. But even there, the higher octane did not increase horsepower on it's own, it simply enabled the engine to run closer to 'peak' performance without knocking. That DOES mean that higher octane fuel nets you a performance gain; but it's important to know that the fuel just enabled that, it didn't actually do it.
11-06-2013 01:00 PM
suss6052 Again E85 doesn't have a super high octane rating.

Pure ethanol has an aki (RON+MON)/2 rating of around 100.

Depending on what octane rating the 15% gasoline has E85 generally has an AKI rating of 94-96 or marginally higher than E10 premium fuel at 93 AKI.

Generally you never see the octane rating listed for E85 since they don't want you to know that they are using a variable product.

Any pump claiming 110+ octane for E85 is talking about the marginal blending value of Ethanol.
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