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Thread: Dropping a Valve - PREVENTION - ??? Reply to Thread
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Topic Review (Newest First)
07-20-2012 11:16 AM
amc49 Simple physics, aluminum expands much more than steel. The statement is not silly, you seem to imply the effect does not take place. ALL heads made this way have to have that compensated for. MANY different types of aluminum heads can have trouble with seats dropping although not like this one does. I've seen it on cars and bikes.

'its less then 2% of the SPI engine that drop the valve seats , when were talking millions of SPI engines 2% is a very small'

I can't classify that as anything but defending the design, sorry...............

The word 'all' as in 'all aluminum heads' was added by you, I didn't say that. You've warped my response into something it isn't or jumped to your own faulty conclusion.................
07-16-2012 11:31 AM
1turbofocus
Quote:
Originally Posted by amc49 View Post
'to say the head is aluminum and the seat is steel, the aluminum expands more with heat and sooner or later the part will work loose and fall out is just silly'

That's not a good thought to come back with. It's not only simple physics but one of the foremost reasons why a seat would drop, yet you as god simply dismiss it. It doesn't make you look smarter. It does make you look like you care more about insulting people than the truth. Why do you do that? .
Yes it is just silly , by your statement at some point ALL Alum heads with steel seats "sooner or later the part will work loose and fall out " will fall out is not a true statement , again there are BILLIONS of Alum head out there all the way back to the mid 1960`s that dont have this issue and are still running , why is it hard to believe that the seats are to small and not in the head tight enough from the factory, The seat being to small from the start has nothing to do with physics , A steel seat installed PROPERLY will NEVER fall out of an Alum head

There was no intent of making anyone look silly , I am not one to beat around the bush , Yes I am blunt and I say whats comes to mind but its not ment as an insult in any way , your on the Internet , you need to take your feelings out of the equation and look at what I wrote , if you dont agree tell me why and we can debate it , saying something is silly wasnt an insult and I am not a God altho I did sleep at a Holiday Inn Express last night LOL


Quote:
Originally Posted by amc49 View Post
While your number of 2% fails may be spouted as some screwy defense of the engine design and implementation, I'm sure that explanation (and the additional LOL comment) makes anybody who's lost a car prematurely due to it feel so much better. I'm also sure that 2% number very easily translates into more than that in bad feeling that ultimately can affect repeat cars sales, pissed off owners spread much more bad press than happy ones do good.

I don't necessarily buy the 2% number but IF...............

2% of ONE million, not even the millions spoke of, is 20,000 pissed off owners, I wouldn't dismiss that amount as 'small'. Ford has lost market share in bits and pieces smaller than that at times in the past, but they still lost it. You let go of 2% here and 2% there at your peril nowadays. If you wrote off that amount with such a flippant air in the marketing department, you'd have a job all of maybe 5 minutes.
"screwy defense of the engine design and implementation" Where was I defending this engine or the issues it has , short of the 4.6 I think its the worst engine Ford even built , I even stated , unless you one with the seats falling out , did I not ?

Tom
07-16-2012 04:01 AM
TheGlassMaker A simple head rebuild with better valves will fix the issue. Or a new head done properly of course.
07-16-2012 03:09 AM
amc49 'to say the head is aluminum and the seat is steel, the aluminum expands more with heat and sooner or later the part will work loose and fall out is just silly'

That's not a good thought to come back with. It's not only simple physics but one of the foremost reasons why a seat would drop, yet you as god simply dismiss it. It doesn't make you look smarter. It does make you look like you care more about insulting people than the truth. Why do you do that?

While your number of 2% fails may be spouted as some screwy defense of the engine design and implementation, I'm sure that explanation (and the additional LOL comment) makes anybody who's lost a car prematurely due to it feel so much better. I'm also sure that 2% number very easily translates into more than that in bad feeling that ultimately can affect repeat cars sales, pissed off owners spread much more bad press than happy ones do good.

I don't necessarily buy the 2% number but IF...............

2% of ONE million, not even the millions spoke of, is 20,000 pissed off owners, I wouldn't dismiss that amount as 'small'. Ford has lost market share in bits and pieces smaller than that at times in the past, but they still lost it. You let go of 2% here and 2% there at your peril nowadays. If you wrote off that amount with such a flippant air in the marketing department, you'd have a job all of maybe 5 minutes.
07-14-2012 05:08 PM
1turbofocus There is nothing the EGR changes in the Cyl that would change if the valve seat falls out or not

What do you feel the EGR does to the Cyl that would help the seat not to fall out with the EGR unhooked ,EGR hooked up or not hooked up wont change the fact the seats were installed loose , its less then 2% of the SPI engine that drop the valve seats , when were talking millions of SPI engines 2% is a very small # unless you have one that drops one LOL

My paper carrier uses a SPI to deliver papers he is over 300,000 miles and that was 2 years ago and its still going , egr connected and it still passes the OBDII Emission test and snif

Tom
07-14-2012 03:43 PM
roughrider3211 If you dont like my input that fine i just explaining my thesis its working for my wife car tho i would share my input
I kno how egr system work to tom i work on them everyday. The spi engine will drop number valve seat due to the egr but like i said dont mind try if u want or dont
Sent from my DROID RAZR using FF Mobile
07-14-2012 09:13 AM
1turbofocus Any time you put Alum and steel under the same conditions (combustion chamber) you wont have the same temps , the valve seat is there to also remove heat from the valve,

to say the head is aluminum and the seat is steel, the aluminum expands more with heat and sooner or later the part will work loose and fall out. is just silly there are BILLIONS of Alum heads out there that dont have the issues of the SPI head , the problem with the SPI head was that SOME of the seats were not install tight enough in the head and they come loose

Unhooking the EGR valve wont keep the seat from falling out but it also wont make for higher EGT and bad MPG , Yes I know what the EGR does and how it works , I also know what the EGT goes to on an engine before and after I have removed them and see no drop in MPG at all and on some a gain in removing the EGR

In my opinion the EGR is 90% emmisions , 9% BS and 1% useable and very questionable on the 1% in my opinion

Tom
07-14-2012 08:31 AM
poppop http://mechdb.com/index.php/Valve_seat
07-14-2012 08:07 AM
roughrider3211 It will because now the two metal are staying the same temps constantly instead of the two metals of constantly cooling and heat and well fuel suffers a bit it still better then driving and all the sudden car runs like shit or just locks up and i have done a test on 2 2001 my wifes is still with 255078 miles orginal owns was us my 2001 die at 175154 miles try and dont like undo it as simple as that


Sent from my DROID RAZR using FF Mobile
07-13-2012 08:09 PM
amc49 It won't, guy's dreamin'..............
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