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Topic Review (Newest First)
Today 10:51 PM
FFhb13
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jburks View Post
that was my whole point in resurrecting this thread lol. I wanted to know if it was going from 2.5 inch to 3.0 that gave him that extra 8whp. also, would a three exhaust be beneficial without the header. I know Focusboy has the f2 header to go along with the 3in exhaust but by keeping the stock exhaust manifold would a 3in exhaust see the same gains or would a 2.5 be better?
Don't keep stock manifold, simple..it's restrictive, anyone that does an exhaust and cares about performance will upgrade the manifold because the system is only as good as the sum of it's parts..an intake and exhaust without a header is still leaving a restriction in, nullifying some of the gains of the intake and exhaust...just like people that upgrade headers and exhaust but leave their stock cat in, at 1.75" or whatever pipe to save money... making it 2.25" all the way makes a big difference
Today 10:47 PM
FFhb13
Quote:
Originally Posted by RonMaiden View Post
I've seen a couple dynoed Hondas "upgrade" their exhaust to a 3" system and did see a gain in peak hp but peak torque was lower at the same rpm.
I've had buddies do that with their hondas/acuras and I laughed because they were obnoxiously loud with the massive 5" fart cannon muffler...all that noise and I would smoke them in a stock car easily until they got the revs way up then they would finally start pulling
Today 10:44 PM
FFhb13
Quote:
Originally Posted by dyn085 View Post
No, it's not. CBE does not affect power in that manner, primaries/secondaries do. All a CBE does is get the exhaust out beyond the body and is a case of diminishing gains, i.e.-it will either cost too much for the materials/vs gain or it won't physically fit. The whole concept that a CBE can be too big to somehow shift the power band is an old-wives tale. You can have too small but the inverse is not true.

Wondering how many cars have you modified or driven because I have felt the negative effects of too large an exhaust in real world driving, I tend to believe these experiences rather then what is read in a book or on the internet. Car is much slower off the line then a similarly equipped stock vehicle, eventually the power comes back, and top end power/throttle response is better and the car will pull on the stock one, but in real world driving, who drives at high rpm all the time (besides ricers).
Today 08:15 PM
Jburks that was my whole point in resurrecting this thread lol. I wanted to know if it was going from 2.5 inch to 3.0 that gave him that extra 8whp. also, would a three exhaust be beneficial without the header. I know Focusboy has the f2 header to go along with the 3in exhaust but by keeping the stock exhaust manifold would a 3in exhaust see the same gains or would a 2.5 be better?
Today 07:57 PM
dyn085
Quote:
Originally Posted by AmericanCaveman View Post
I respectfully disagree with you dyno. I drove a '94 F-150 for 11 years. It had a 300 I6. I spent a lot of money on various exhaust combinations getting the perfect sound out of it (and I did). By doing so I learned a lot.

You can indeed have too large a diameter exhaust piping. Once you go too big you lose exhaust velocity, thus reducing correct flow. Once this happens you lose power, most noticeably low end torque.

I won't say anything about our little 2.0's since I've yet to play with the exhaust. However I do find it hard to believe a 3'' pipe isn't too large for the 2.0. I'll happily admit I'm wrong should someone pay to have my car's exhaust done in 3'' catback. I think the biggest thing with our cars is all the restrictions. One to two cats, two resonators, and a muffler the size of Texas. I'm curious what gains our cars would see exactly with all of that deleted while maintaining a 2'' or at most a 2.25'' pipe diameter.

This response is not hostile at all, and I am just saying my personal thoughts and opinions, which are worth what you all paid for them. My experience comes from modding a 300's exhaust system, a lot. I have also modded (to a much lesser degree two 3.0 Ford Escape's exhaust.

I'm not saying a 2.0 doesn't see horsepower and torque improvements by opening up the exhaust to 3'', but I feel that the increase in power is done so primarily by deleting all of the restrictions, not so much from increasing pipe diameter.

I want you all to know my response is done so with humble intentions. I have not had the pleasure of modding my Focus' exhaust yet. I had an appointment tomorrow morning to swap out my muffler, but that's it. I'm doing so in full knowledge I will not see any kind of meaningful horsepower increase, just noise.

I'm just a Focus newb happily learning away here!

Lol, you don't have to apologize for having an opinion. Maybe it will make more sense if I clarify my statement-

Primaries and secondaries (aka header[s]) absolutely can be too large and absolutely will change the powerband. That's basically the point of having them. A vehicle with no tuning or cam changes will see an improvement in one area of the tach with a reduction in another.

Beyond that, the sole intent is the evacuation of those spent gases. Stop the exhaust right there and you'll have the maximum power available. This is why most race cars have a dump or a short run to a side-exit. If it's a dump then is most likely a drag car because having those gases beneath the passenger compartment is no bueno.

Most of us can't/won't hack up our car to get those gases out in a faster fashion. The only alternative is to open the tubing diameter going out the rear of the car. Because the velocity increase that's necessary occurs within the primaries/secondaries, you're only limited by what physically fits or that you can afford.

If velocity in the CBE was so important, you would see people ceramic-coating them or wrapping them with header wrap. It's also worth noting that Gabe's 183 whp had come from a 3" exhaust after getting 175 whp on 2.5". But in equal fashion, I will also gladly change my stance if someone ever proves otherwise on the Duratec. If 2.5" was enough (or, at worst, too much) then there would have been no gains with the increase.
Quote:
Originally Posted by RonMaiden View Post
I've seen a couple dynoed Hondas "upgrade" their exhaust to a 3" system and did see a gain in peak hp but peak torque was lower at the same rpm.
I would be inclined to believe there was a change in the header for this to occur.
Today 07:34 PM
Gi_Jo_Nathan
Quote:
Originally Posted by AmericanCaveman View Post
Brother, when it comes to driving anything, I have to be able to hear the exhaust. I don't mean LOUD or anything obnoxious, just something that sounds good.

I'm not racing anyone anyway, lol. My great pleasure comes from having a car that gets 40+ mpg but can still be called "spritely". The car has enough oomph to pass someone down a backroad, and that's all I need out of it. I just want it to sound good doing it, haha!
I hear yah.
I love my exhaust, whether I've lost power or not. lol
Today 07:30 PM
AmericanCaveman
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gi_Jo_Nathan View Post
When you're not on a dyno or a track, that can be the most satisfying thing.
Brother, when it comes to driving anything, I have to be able to hear the exhaust. I don't mean LOUD or anything obnoxious, just something that sounds good.

I'm not racing anyone anyway, lol. My great pleasure comes from having a car that gets 40+ mpg but can still be called "spritely". The car has enough oomph to pass someone down a backroad, and that's all I need out of it. I just want it to sound good doing it, haha!
Today 07:12 PM
Gi_Jo_Nathan
Quote:
Originally Posted by AmericanCaveman View Post
I'm doing so in full knowledge I will not see any kind of meaningful horsepower increase, just noise.

When you're not on a dyno or a track, that can be the most satisfying thing.
Today 07:07 PM
RonMaiden I've seen a couple dynoed Hondas "upgrade" their exhaust to a 3" system and did see a gain in peak hp but peak torque was lower at the same rpm.
Today 07:02 PM
AmericanCaveman
Quote:
Originally Posted by dyn085 View Post
No, it's not. CBE does not affect power in that manner, primaries/secondaries do. All a CBE does is get the exhaust out beyond the body and is a case of diminishing gains, i.e.-it will either cost too much for the materials/vs gain or it won't physically fit. The whole concept that a CBE can be too big to somehow shift the power band is an old-wives tale. You can have too small but the inverse is not true.
I respectfully disagree with you dyno. I drove a '94 F-150 for 11 years. It had a 300 I6. I spent a lot of money on various exhaust combinations getting the perfect sound out of it (and I did). By doing so I learned a lot.

You can indeed have too large a diameter exhaust piping. Once you go too big you lose exhaust velocity, thus reducing correct flow. Once this happens you lose power, most noticeably low end torque.

I won't say anything about our little 2.0's since I've yet to play with the exhaust. However I do find it hard to believe a 3'' pipe isn't too large for the 2.0. I'll happily admit I'm wrong should someone pay to have my car's exhaust done in 3'' catback. I think the biggest thing with our cars is all the restrictions. One to two cats, two resonators, and a muffler the size of Texas. I'm curious what gains our cars would see exactly with all of that deleted while maintaining a 2'' or at most a 2.25'' pipe diameter.

This response is not hostile at all, and I am just saying my personal thoughts and opinions, which are worth what you all paid for them. My experience comes from modding a 300's exhaust system, a lot. I have also modded (to a much lesser degree two 3.0 Ford Escape's exhaust.

I'm not saying a 2.0 doesn't see horsepower and torque improvements by opening up the exhaust to 3'', but I feel that the increase in power is done so primarily by deleting all of the restrictions, not so much from increasing pipe diameter.

I want you all to know my response is done so with humble intentions. I have not had the pleasure of modding my Focus' exhaust yet. I had an appointment tomorrow morning to swap out my muffler, but that's it. I'm doing so in full knowledge I will not see any kind of meaningful horsepower increase, just noise.

I'm just a Focus newb happily learning away here!

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