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Topic Review (Newest First)
02-20-2017 09:53 PM
1turbofocus
Quote:
Originally Posted by sailor View Post
BTW - two definitions of 'collapse' led to the disagreement it appears.

Common definition of physical failure vs. a specific one of reduced diameter from a previous overheating of the piston.

Which definition was meant by the piston company quoted as evidence is questionable, as reinforcement to prevent physical collapse will NOT prevent the reduced diameter situation from overheating.
You are correct , In the world of pistons there is 3 things that can happen to a piston skirt , Break , Crack or collapse where the piston actually gets smaller in the skirt area when you mic it from excessive heat

Many things will break a piston skirt debris , to much timing , piston to wall clearance , to short or small a piston skirt for what your using them for etc most are from excessive skirt load

I have actually taken 4 pistons that had collapsed the skirts and bored the block to match them and ran them in my Focus for 6 years making north of 300hp to the wheels

Tom
02-20-2017 07:26 PM
sailor BTW - two definitions of 'collapse' led to the disagreement it appears.

Common definition of physical failure vs. a specific one of reduced diameter from a previous overheating of the piston.

Which definition was meant by the piston company quoted as evidence is questionable, as reinforcement to prevent physical collapse will NOT prevent the reduced diameter situation from overheating.
02-19-2017 12:30 PM
sailor Better yet - how about YOU TWO cleaning it up?

Both old enough to argue without name calling & exaggerations, yet there's a desire for 'moderation' to pick out just what words/comments are to remain and which to be removed?

For the moment at least, I'm not going to either pick through this OR eliminate it completely, and definitely not do something that creates a 'winner' here.

From the start it seemed that better definitions would likely eliminate much of the argument, but arguing is apparently more fun. A good argument CAN be enjoyable, but once it's a name calling contest there's much less point to it.

Think about that, and as you edit your own posts remember that name calling & exaggeration loses you points in any debate.
02-19-2017 09:58 AM
1turbofocus Are you serious " lier " " bullsh-tter " Why is it I am always wrong with you , just because you dont know what your talking about I must be lying ?

Let me get this straight , you say you were wrong , you apologies and say I was correct then turn right around again and show your true colors and revert to name calling . slander and bashing , shows your true character


Tom
02-19-2017 03:05 AM
amc49 This one has left a bad taste in my mouth for a while now. I intend to resolve that now.

I have to admit it, Tom is 100% correct, as much as I hate doing it.

I let my mouth overload my -ss, and it clearly shows. I tried to be the ultimate bullsh-tter about things that he is and it......, well the jacket doesn't wear well on me at all.

What I should have carefully said and didn't................

Pistons CAN collapse. However, they pretty much don't do it in the very minor amount as indicated by the earlier part of the thread here, or barely enough to let the motor rattle a little more. When they collapse, it is not a controlled thing at all, they pretty much are scrap after doing it.

Any motor I ever took apart that rattled lightly from pistons slapping would be worn at the highs that are in any normal coldsetting piston before it gets hot. You can measure the lows that even up with heating and typically they will still be at the spec size unless it is on the designed thrust faces. If not there will be obvious wear and why they wear fast. The wear comes from them swelling; they swell way before they 'collapse'. The swelling can even cause the collapse when the piston sticks in bore to then be subjected to all sorts of weird abnormal forces. That includes lots of 2 strokes, which get pistons quite a bit hotter than 4 strokes usually ever do. I certainly worked on enough of them.

Collapse, break, crack, the engine won't know the difference even if your engine builder says it's one and not the other. The end result being the same.

10,000 engines now huh?

You're absolutely right Tom, no way will I ever be as good a liar as you...............I see that clearly now.

I apologize to all the rest of you for being the jackass I sometimes am............
01-20-2017 04:44 PM
1turbofocus Ahhhh .... right

Yes I listen to my self and you running on about things you dont know about , I have had more then likely 10,000+ sets of Forged pistons go through my shop , I know hands down that the skirts of a piston can collapse

Probe easily could of said breaking , cracking but they chose collapse and yes I am sure they chose that word specifically for there advertisement because it is a known problem and they addressed that specific problem and why its in the advertisement

Email and company that makes Forged pistons or call and ask them if its possible for a Forged piston to collapse with over heating it

Just because you dont know or think its BS doesnt mean it doesnt happen

Tom
01-20-2017 03:23 AM
amc49 So all that just to show us a word?

You realize of course to Probe the specific word is not nearly so important to them as it is to you right now right? They could have used several other words there and been still correct. They could have said cracked or broken just as easily. I doubt rather seriously they sat around a table trying to figure out the exact word to use there (for you) over beers.

And now you even try to divorce the use of ''reinforced skirt' from 'collapse' yourself.

?????????????

'Not the reinforced skirt YES most Forged Piston Companies do that part BUT Probe specifically used the word collapse not break...'

For like the hundredth time I ask, do you EVER listen to yourself?

Uh, I should drop dead, right?
01-20-2017 12:05 AM
1turbofocus LOL I am not talking about the reinforced , Maybe you didnt read it

" Reinforced piston skirts to eliminate piston skirt collapse. "

Not the reinforced skirt yes most Forged Piston Companies do that part but Probe specifically used the word collapse not break and Probe is a very well known Forged piston company

If I searched there is talk all over the net from major piston companies about piston skirts collapsing , just because you think its BS doesnt change its a fact that it happens

Tom
01-19-2017 10:22 PM
amc49 And that is supposed to be proof of something?

ALL PISTONS MADE ON THE PLANET have reinforced skirts. Find me one that doesn't. All that means is that the piston won't suddenly fail by breaking the skirts out of it.

Good joke.
01-19-2017 09:36 AM
1turbofocus LOL , a Forged piston when over heated can/will draw in on the skirts ( collapse ) causing it to be slightly smaller to the point you get some piston slap

This is from Probe and I can find you dozens more like it , I did a copy and paste so it wasnt taken out of context

A: Probe FPS Forged Pistons are designed for heavy duty and high performance use when the application requires a piston that is stronger than a Cast or Hypereutectic Cast Piston. They are suitable for heavy duty, high performance street and some race applications. Compression ratios are similar to factory applications and weights are generally lighter than the TRW equivalent. The FPS series is manufactured using the same ultra-modern machining techniques as the SRS and series pistons.

FPS - Technical Summary

Forged of VMS-75 High Silicon Aluminum for lasting performance.
Light weight forging design is typically about 70 grams lighter than TRW’s.
CNC Diamond machined skirts and ring grooves for increase power.
Tight piston to wall clearance design for better ring seal.
Reinforced piston skirts to eliminate piston skirt collapse.
Radial Anti Detonation Grooves reduce detonation by clipping pressure spikes.
Pressure Equalization Channel enhances ring seal, making more power and increasing fuel economy.
Increased valve relief depth for high performance camshafts.
Offset wrist pins for reduced noise and lasting operation.
Stock size rings grooves and press fit piston pins.

Probe SRS Forged Pistons are designed for performance and race applications where a strong, lightweight forged piston is an advantage. With well over 200 part numbers now in stock for popular Chevrolet, Ford, Chrysler, and Sport Compact applications, the SRS Series are a full-featured piston and are extremely popular for use in street and most racing combinations.
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