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Topic Review (Newest First)
10-11-2009 11:00 PM
tb1999
Quote:
Originally Posted by apex214 View Post
I only ran there once, but don't recall any mention of such a provision...and the place has such garbage for grass that you'd never notice if you went off. The ONLY thing that's completed at that so-called 5-star track club is, well, the track (WITHOUT proper gravel traps and/or paved runoff where it's really needed), the security "toll booths" and the almost ridiculous, huge custom shiny metal (or metal look) entry gate, fashioned after the logo for the place. There's not a single permanent building on the property, and even the simple pit wall (no garages etc etc) was some of the crappiest concrete work I have seen.

All that's just so you can be sure to ignore all the flashy promo video hype the place puts out. The 4 mile TRACK, as long as you stay on the pavement and don't kiss any of the miles and miles of Armco (much of which is not protected by tires!) is a wonderful challenge. I loved every lap...so many types of corners, many tough combinations that really test your "forward thinking". My vote: A must drive.
That's interesting, I need to search youtube for some videos......
10-11-2009 06:23 PM
WeeAsp
Quote:
Originally Posted by tb1999 View Post
I've heard that Monticello Motor Club charges to replace the "sod" if you go off track and tear up the landscaping, so anything other than a "perfect day" there will incur extra fees.......

In contrast, if you disturb anything at summit point they would probably just thank you for rerranging the scenery provided the timing and scoring system is still functional.

They are soooo laid back in WV, I really like Summit Point
Summit Point views that kind of activity as "adding character to the racing environment."

That quote is non-attribution.

However, it speaks volumes about Summit Point's attitude towards their customers....
10-09-2009 05:57 AM
apex214
Quote:
Originally Posted by tb1999 View Post
I've heard that Monticello Motor Club charges to replace the "sod" if you go off track and tear up the landscaping, so anything other than a "perfect day" there will incur extra fees.......
I only ran there once, but don't recall any mention of such a provision...and the place has such garbage for grass that you'd never notice if you went off. The ONLY thing that's completed at that so-called 5-star track club is, well, the track (WITHOUT proper gravel traps and/or paved runoff where it's really needed), the security "toll booths" and the almost ridiculous, huge custom shiny metal (or metal look) entry gate, fashioned after the logo for the place. There's not a single permanent building on the property, and even the simple pit wall (no garages etc etc) was some of the crappiest concrete work I have seen.

All that's just so you can be sure to ignore all the flashy promo video hype the place puts out. The 4 mile TRACK, as long as you stay on the pavement and don't kiss any of the miles and miles of Armco (much of which is not protected by tires!) is a wonderful challenge. I loved every lap...so many types of corners, many tough combinations that really test your "forward thinking". My vote: A must drive.
10-07-2009 09:57 PM
tb1999
Quote:
Originally Posted by WeeAsp View Post
That's another thing to add insult to injury. Many tracks, including Watkins Glen, at HPDE events hold the participants responsible for damage done to the track infrastructure during an incident.
I've heard that Monticello Motor Club charges to replace the "sod" if you go off track and tear up the landscaping, so anything other than a "perfect day" there will incur extra fees.......

In contrast, if you disturb anything at summit point they would probably just thank you for rerranging the scenery provided the timing and scoring system is still functional.

They are soooo laid back in WV, I really like Summit Point
10-04-2009 10:53 PM
Kfokus
Quote:
Originally Posted by Co0p3r View Post
Yes i did, one of the best experiences ever! I did have one of the slowest cars on the track by horsepower 170hp. But that did not matter one bit, I hung with everyone through the turns and even passed about everyone at least once after riding their license plate through all the turns. I love my SVT and it truly is a great track car, the back stretch started me at 95 mph before braking, by sunday night, i was hitting 115mph before braking, the car ran great all weekend and I cant wait to do it again, I ad a awesome instructor that drilled into my head that smooth is fast, I kept with it and got much faster, dusted the following cars through the turns: Miata, RX-8, Stock 350Z, Prelude, Civic, 2.5 RS, 944. The other cars in my class i couldnt touch, but hung with them in corners, evo, vette, sti... LOL :)
Good showing man!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Co0p3r View Post
Well, i didnt want to tear up my SVT, so Im currently looking for a built CRX, another one of my favorite cars, to use as a dedicated track car, and I will be attending as many HPDE events as I can, Im hooked beyond belief.
Yea I KNOW that'll happen to me, when I pop my HPDE track event cherry.
10-04-2009 03:13 PM
Co0p3r Let me know about the car wise :) lol. And i know, its a costly hobby, that is why I have a good job and im keeping my feet clean. :) dont discourage me.. lol
10-04-2009 11:16 AM
WeeAsp
Quote:
Just last weekend when I was at the glen, I saw someone loose it a few feet behind me going down into the boot. I just saw a blur of color bouncing off the armco in my mirrors. When we got back to the paddock, his car was toast. The front was hit pretty hard. It needed typical sheetmetal work and a new radiator, but the hit to the rear suspension tore out part of his unibody where the lateral arm attaches. He was on track for exactly 3 laps that day. (the day before I got a little out of shape on that same turn myself but reeled her in before it got ugly.)
That's another thing to add insult to injury. Many tracks, including Watkins Glen, at HPDE events hold the participants responsible for damage done to the track infrastructure during an incident.

So, picture this. You are flying down into the boot when the left rear tire blows. You snap sideways, leave the track and introduce yourself to the ARMCO. From there, you come across the track, skip across the grass and come to a rest. Without question, it is a BIG hit. Front end squished, front clip torn off and the sheet metal is creased on the driver's side from fender to bumper. The car is a total loss.

But there's more...you take out a total of 15 feet of barrier.

Let's review the butcher's bill:

Cost of the car - $5000
Tow bill home - $600
Cost of track dry - $300
Cost of ARMCO Replacement - $1500 ($100 per foot the last time I asked)

Total - $7400 give or take

That's an expensive weekend. I use this example for myself and with students whenever I hear or say "It'll never happen to me".

I replied to the PM Cooper...

Sincerely, One "WiseAsp"
09-30-2009 08:29 AM
Co0p3r Well guys, I am in no way to want to jump right into racing what so ever, i do know its a hobby and I dont want to go broke doing it, but I want a second cheap car that can be driven in the winter and drove at the track. My SVT Has new wheels, and has just been completely painted, it kills me driving it down a back road lol :)! That being said, I feel so horrid and out of place driving this CRX around town and to work. I should of went with my gut and got another cheap SVT. But i was stupid and jumped on a deal, I want something that resembles my personal car and is very controllable on the track like my SVT was, this stupid CRX has a mind of its own, and if i take it to the track i think it will just hurt my chances of ever getting better. WeeASP I messaged you about your focus. Please get back with me or call me man.
09-30-2009 12:38 AM
tb1999 WeeAsp should change his handle to "WiseAsp" (er, uh, that does not sound as good as I was hoping... LOL)

Anyway, he is correct about easing into racing. While I made the "mistake" about carving up a perfectly good car to become a dedicated racer, I did ease in over a 2 1/2 year period. I think I put about 1600 miles on track in my first 2 years just doing HPDE and Time Trials with my daily driver. For the second year, I did install a bolt in autopower 4 pt roll bar for the safety of having a 5 pt harness, and proper roll over protection.

In year 1 had one "close call" spinning off the infield on the pocono east course, I busted up some cosmetic stuff, and fog lamp. I had to pull out the lower radiator support, but I did not drop any fluids, and I drove her home. (I repaired a small crack in the bumper cover, ans replaced about $200 of fog lamp and trim pieces etc.

In year 2 I was not so lucky on the day I launched #4 rod out the bottom of the block. That required a tow home (free from a fellow competitor) and a used motor and some replacement parts etc. Doing all the work on my driveway with a borrowed cherry picker cost me about $1250 total.

Just last weekend when I was at the glen, I saw someone loose it a few feet behind me going down into the boot. I just saw a blur of color bouncing off the armco in my mirrors. When we got back to the paddock, his car was toast. The front was hit pretty hard. It needed typical sheetmetal work and a new radiator, but the hit to the rear suspension tore out part of his unibody where the lateral arm attaches. He was on track for exactly 3 laps that day. (the day before I got a little out of shape on that same turn myself but reeled her in before it got ugly.)

IT does get expensive, and it is hard to unload a race cars and used parts if/when it comes time to call it quits for whatever reason. But it seems I'm hooked, and my retirement plans now include aquiring a taste for dog food.
09-28-2009 08:53 PM
WeeAsp
Quote:
Originally Posted by Co0p3r View Post
they are too nice to abuse and gut out for a race car lol i get cheap honda
I have one ready to go...

My little SVT has almost as many track miles as street miles on it.

Hands down, BEST track car I've ever owned.

Is it the fastest? No. Is it respectable? Yes. Will it keep up with a lot of much more expensive cars? You betcha.

Is the car modified? Nope....

The only thing I do to the car is change fluids, put gas in it and change the brakes. Oh, and some REALLY sticky tires.

I agree with Shelby and Tbb on this one. Invest in seat time before you buy a dedicated track car. It is singularly the best investment you can make.

- Driving a street car to the absolute limit on track is a challenge. The measure of this is not the number of cars you pass, but lap times. Lower your lap times and you improve - getting closer to that limit. When your lap times for the session get to tenths or hundreths of seconds (optimum conditions) within each other, you have either found your limit or the car's. Find that and you will see a lot more cars in your mirror.

- Expense. A wise man once asked me "Would you like to have a small fortune?" I said "Of course!" He responded "Start with a large fortune and go racing". You have no idea how incredibly expensive this hobby is/can be. Parts, entrance fees, fuel, fluid, safety gear, food, hotels and time. All of those things are paid before you even put rubber on the track. Take what you paid for your HPDE event and triple it (at a minimum) for one race weekend. Because now with a dedicated race/track car you will have to tow it - which means buying another vehicle. You change fluid and brakes after every event, sometimes after track session, licensing fees, and the list goes on.

- Race/track cars fall into two categories:

a) REALLY easy to drive fast because they are purpose built. You will wonder why you EVER drove your street car on the track
b) REALLY GHASTLY to drive on the track. Twitchy at all times that has none of the forgiveness that a street car has - that means you get in trouble a LOT faster. Tempermental thoroughbred that is prone to mechanical failure for the simpliest of things - all of which are ridiculously expensive to fix an NO ONE ever has the part you need. Oh, and remember all that money you spent getting ready? The entrance fees, the prep work and time? *poof* all gone and non-refundable.

- Your car. If you are REALLY serious about going racing, USE YOUR street car at HPDE events for at least one year. That will give you a taste of what your pockets will have to endure.

I am not trying to discourage you. Rather, the opposite, but with a strong dose of reality. EASE into this hobby. There may come a time in your life where you have to walk away from it for a while (family, work, tired of working on cars at 3:00 a.m. before a race). When that happens, and it will, you are now stuck with a huge investment that has no monetary value. You will invest 10X more than you will ever recover if you sell off all your gear. Walking away is much easier if all you have to worry about are a few extra spares and some track wheels.

Finally, and here we agree, to really commit yourself to this hobby, you MUST emotionally disconect yourself from the car you drive - street car or race/track car. At the end of the day, it is a tool that might break or get broken. You HAVE to be willing to accept that it is not IF you go off track, but WHEN you go off track. If you are lucky, you are spending the rest of the day pulling grass out of the calipers. If you are not so lucky, you throw the car away. that is much easier to do if you have another vehicle to get you home and to work on Monday.

You have to be comfortable with that...
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