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Topic Review (Newest First)
05-07-2007 06:26 AM
StealthGray
Quote:
Originally Posted by thenorm View Post
a couple posts back someone was relating a few stories about how experienced drivers have over corrected and lost it into a curb/berm/fence, etc.

IN my experience driving I have almost lost it many times, But when things start to go bad, I focus on saving the car (and myself), not on saving the run. Its when people who end up at 11/10ths try to save their run, by major steering corrections to get back on course, that they end up over correcting and totally screwing up. I've had many DNF where I save my self and the run be damned. As much as there MAY have been a problem with course design (i wasnt there, and sometimes its not balck and white). I still lean toward gross driver error for this accident.

One way to look at it (not the only way, but a good point of view) is the way the FAA does. I've heard crashes referred to as "Controlled Flight Into Ground" (ie - nothing wrong with the plane). If there is no mechanical problem with the plane then the FAA considers the cause of the crash pilot error . Rather harsh judgment in some cases...
Saving your butt rather than the run is a great priority!
05-06-2007 09:49 PM
focuszx3lv not cool man......
04-25-2007 12:42 PM
WeeAsp
Quote:
Originally Posted by tua03332 View Post
we get a large novice turn out each event, probaly only have about 100 regulars that attend every event rain or shine. I think our main issue with safety is rookies coming off their first run not coming to a complete stop but rather cruising back to their grid spot at a whooping 30mph, with over 250 people walking thats definately not a good thing. I ususally play the 2x's rule, i warn you twice to slow down and maintain the 5mph limit while in grid/paddock, if they do it a third time, kicked off the site. We only had to do this once last year as a guy spun into the grass back to back runs. the fact we stick to our guns though means EVERYONE plays by the rules, and personally I want a 60 car event, more runs lol, we get 4 per day, i run with another region that usually gets about 60 and we get 8 runs.
We emphasize these things to at our driver meetings. I swear sometimes though it seems like a ball peen hammer is the most effective reenforcement tool. Another thing we do is enforce "walking speeds" in the paddock area.

I like a smaller field as well. We always get a minimum of 8 runs. 4 in the morning, 4 in the afternoon.
04-25-2007 11:28 AM
tua03332 we get a large novice turn out each event, probaly only have about 100 regulars that attend every event rain or shine. I think our main issue with safety is rookies coming off their first run not coming to a complete stop but rather cruising back to their grid spot at a whooping 30mph, with over 250 people walking thats definately not a good thing. I ususally play the 2x's rule, i warn you twice to slow down and maintain the 5mph limit while in grid/paddock, if they do it a third time, kicked off the site. We only had to do this once last year as a guy spun into the grass back to back runs. the fact we stick to our guns though means EVERYONE plays by the rules, and personally I want a 60 car event, more runs lol, we get 4 per day, i run with another region that usually gets about 60 and we get 8 runs.
04-25-2007 11:26 AM
Carrera26 We always make it a point to talk about this sort of situation in our Driver Meetings. We let guys know, and I know I repeat it if I am the one giving the Novice Walk, that if you're truly out of control then the run is already boned and you need to just get off of it. If you're in that situation, then there's no way you can "save" the run anyway...

Maybe the finish was a kink the other way, but on my courses Finish NEVER points at paddock or any immovable obstacle, and I mean the general direction they will be speeding into at finish, not just a kink they can drive right through. If that compromises the course a bit, TFB.
04-25-2007 11:05 AM
WeeAsp
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpeedOften View Post
Found some video's of the finish of the course where the porsche crashed...

http://s48.photobucket.com/albums/f228/bandit027/

He must have froze up or something b/c it looks like there's plenty of room to stop, or even turn if the brakes went out...
Thanks for posting the videos.

Like you, I am somewhat at a loss as to how it could happen. At this point, I am less inclined to blame course design based on what the video shows.

Looks like gross driver error.

Tua -

Sounds like you guys run a tight ship. Fortunately, we don't have to worry about grass and walls. Your events are considerably larger than ours (we only run about 60 cars per event) and I can see how it would be difficult to police an event.

With that many cars, I can see why you would need everone to be watching.

I do like the idea of pulling a participant if they are shall we say..."overly enthusiastic". Right now, if that happens at our events (unless they are really being stupid by doing it in the paddock), usually they get a talking to and the suggestion of taking an instructor.
04-25-2007 11:05 AM
tua03332
Quote:
Originally Posted by thenorm View Post
a couple posts back someone was relating a few stories about how experienced drivers have over corrected and lost it into a curb/berm/fence, etc.

IN my experience driving I have almost lost it many times, But when things start to go bad, I focus on saving the car (and myself), not on saving the run. Its when people who end up at 11/10ths try to save their run, by major steering corrections to get back on course, that they end up over correcting and totally screwing up. I've had many DNF where I save my self and the run be damned. As much as there MAY have been a problem with course design (i wasnt there, and sometimes its not balck and white). I still lean toward gross driver error for this accident.
This is something only fixed with experience, and thats another reason why a novice shouldn't change cars, he doesn't know how to correct it in a new car, who would? Andretti?

Two weeks ago I had an event in the pooring rain and during a slalom my back end came around and i found my car pointed at a course worker oblivious to me out of control, this was a familar situation for me to have the back slipping excessively so all i did was minor countersteer and took my feet off the pedals until i was able to regain control, steer away from the worker and come to a stop. Luckily I hit only one cone too and they didnt even bother red flagging me as I just made my way off course 6/10ths the speed so as not to hold up the event. Only seat time can really prepare you for these type of situations and thats why I love AutoX, you really do become a better driver.
04-25-2007 10:59 AM
tua03332 my region does pretty much the exact same thing but also we try to make use of permanent structures, like placing worker stations near light poles with cement bases. grid and just about every paddock are either located on a different surface or have a permanent barrier protecting them. and yes the course exit should always run off into wide open space if avaliable, if not avaliable, then something that will at least (as a minimum) protect all others not in the car, hopefully the driver has his seat belt on. We have one course located on an abadoned airstrip that has cement barriers at both ends and large expanses of grass along the sides. Obviously we park the timing truck,grid, and paddock behind the cement wall. only once or twice a year do I see someone lose it and spin into the grass with no damage except a need for a carwash. oh and the fact that that almost fast run won't count. We also enact a rule that if a driver seems to spin, or be out of control consistently, we pull them out of the event. also if a wheel touches the grass, your pulled out too. we run a 30ft buffer between any course element and the grass. as for those with the authority to stop the event, I am the assistant grid chief and two weeks ago i found an oil slick in grid, radioed it in and the SS pulled the car, not the driver out of the event, he was allowed to run another car should someone offer. Anyone is allowed to stop an event, but only the chiefs have the power to actually remove a car/driver from an event. We actually depend on everybody keeping watch for unsafe conditions such as a biker wanting to ride through, opps I never saw him ride through grid. We run about 200 per event so its tough to keep track of everyone.
04-25-2007 10:50 AM
thenorm a couple posts back someone was relating a few stories about how experienced drivers have over corrected and lost it into a curb/berm/fence, etc.

IN my experience driving I have almost lost it many times, But when things start to go bad, I focus on saving the car (and myself), not on saving the run. Its when people who end up at 11/10ths try to save their run, by major steering corrections to get back on course, that they end up over correcting and totally screwing up. I've had many DNF where I save my self and the run be damned. As much as there MAY have been a problem with course design (i wasnt there, and sometimes its not balck and white). I still lean toward gross driver error for this accident.
04-25-2007 10:43 AM
SpeedOften Found some video's of the finish of the course where the porsche crashed...

http://s48.photobucket.com/albums/f228/bandit027/

He must have froze up or something b/c it looks like there's plenty of room to stop, or even turn if the brakes went out...
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