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Thread: New USA bound diesels? Reply to Thread
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Topic Review (Newest First)
04-05-2013 06:26 AM
whynotthinkwhynot I can't believe this thread is still going
04-04-2013 10:17 PM
mjd4277
Quote:
Originally Posted by flyboyike View Post
Can he? Yes. Will he? Not necessarily. If you really want to be technical the CFM56 as installed in the four airframes you list is not exactly the same, in fact, on the KC-135 it's not even called the CFM56.
U.S. military designation of the CFM 56 turbofan engine is F-108(standard procedure on jet engines that are used both in civil and military applications).

There are many variations and subtypes of turbofan engines like the CFM 56,the largest version in size of which is used on the Airbus A340(CFM 56-5C on the A340-200/300 models).

I'm surprised nobody has mentioned this but the CFM 56 owes its very existence to the fact that Cammacorp retrofitted 110 McDonnell Douglas DC-8 Super Sixty series aircraft with CFM 56-2 engines,which gave the planes new leases on life. Two of my former employers(United Airlines and U.P.S. respectively) operated the largest fleets of these aircraft(renamed Super Seventys after the retrofit) up to their retirement(United retired the DC-8 fleet in October 1991,U.P.S. retired theirs around October 2009-about 40 some odd years after some of these aircraft had made their first flights).
04-04-2013 05:21 PM
flyboyike
Quote:
Originally Posted by jinstall View Post
Answered 2. MB mechanics go through an extensive MB schooling, some even get a paid school to Germany for specific training, like AMG certification.

And a follow up: You do realize the GC 3.0L was a Mercedes motor right?
I don't care how much MB training MB techs get, I'm asking you now for the fourth time how much Jeep training do MB techs get? I can see all sorts of liability concerns with an MB tech working on a vehicle he's not certified on, engine be damned.


Quote:
Originally Posted by jinstall
Let's try this, aircraft engines.

CFM 56 is available on the Airbus 320 and 340, Boeing 737 and the KC-135, your trying to say a Airbus mechanic cannot work on a Boeing aircraft engine because it is a Boeing? Even though they share the same CFM 56 turbofan?
Can he? Yes. Will he? Not necessarily. If you really want to be technical the CFM56 as installed in the four airframes you list is not exactly the same, in fact, on the KC-135 it's not even called the CFM56.
04-04-2013 04:24 PM
Montag You guys need to get a grip.

04-04-2013 03:51 PM
jinstall
Quote:
Originally Posted by flyboyike View Post
A lot of words there. Two questions:


2. If even Jeep techs only received a 45-minute video on the subject, how much Jeep training do you reckon MB techs received?
Answered 2. MB mechanics go through an extensive MB schooling, some even get a paid school to Germany for specific training, like AMG certification.

And a follow up: You do realize the GC 3.0L was a Mercedes motor right? Mercedes-Benz OM642 to be exact and also found in:

Dodge / Freightliner Trucks / Mercedes-Benz Sprinter (2006–Present)
Jeep Grand Cherokee WK (20051-20072-2008)
Mercedes-Benz C320 CDI (2007–Present)
Mercedes-Benz E320 CDI/Bluetec (2007-2009)
Mercedes-Benz E350 Bluetec (2010–Present)
Mercedes-Benz R320/350 CDI/Bluetec (2007–Present)
Mercedes-Benz ML320/350 CDI/Bluetec (2007–Present)
Mercedes-Benz GL320/350 CDI/Bluetec (2007–Present)
Mercedes-Benz S320/350 CDI/Bluetec (2005–Present)
Chrysler 300 (2006-2011) (Europe and Australia only)
Mercedes-Benz Vito Van 120 cdi and Vito 204 Sports (2006–Present UK)

"You do realize there's more to a vehicle than just the motor, right? Now, how about asking the original question (3rd request)?"

You do realize we are talking about MB mechanics working on a MB motor, right?

Let's try this, aircraft engines.

CFM 56 is available on the Airbus 320 and 340, Boeing 737 and the KC-135, your trying to say a Airbus mechanic cannot work on a Boeing aircraft engine because it is a Boeing? Even though they share the same CFM 56 turbofan?
04-03-2013 04:28 PM
flyboyike
Quote:
Originally Posted by jinstall View Post
You do realize the GC 3.0L was a Mercedes motor right? Mercedes-Benz OM642 to be exact and also found in:
You do realize there's more to a vehicle than just the motor, right? Now, how about asking the original question (3rd request)?
04-03-2013 01:33 PM
jinstall
Quote:
Originally Posted by flyboyike View Post
Great. Now, answer the question I actually asked.
You do realize the GC 3.0L was a Mercedes motor right? Mercedes-Benz OM642 to be exact and also found in:

Dodge / Freightliner Trucks / Mercedes-Benz Sprinter (2006–Present)
Jeep Grand Cherokee WK (20051-20072-2008)
Mercedes-Benz C320 CDI (2007–Present)
Mercedes-Benz E320 CDI/Bluetec (2007-2009)
Mercedes-Benz E350 Bluetec (2010–Present)
Mercedes-Benz R320/350 CDI/Bluetec (2007–Present)
Mercedes-Benz ML320/350 CDI/Bluetec (2007–Present)
Mercedes-Benz GL320/350 CDI/Bluetec (2007–Present)
Mercedes-Benz S320/350 CDI/Bluetec (2005–Present)
Chrysler 300 (2006-2011) (Europe and Australia only)
Mercedes-Benz Vito Van 120 cdi and Vito 204 Sports (2006–Present UK)
04-03-2013 11:33 AM
flyboyike
Quote:
Originally Posted by jinstall View Post
2. MB mechanics go through an extensive MB schooling, some even get a paid school to Germany for specific training, like AMG certification.

Great. Now, answer the question I actually asked.
04-02-2013 02:35 PM
pozi240
Quote:
Originally Posted by Montag View Post
I spent about a dozen years working as a diesel mechanic. I also spent a couple of years overseas where I drove several diesel Toyota Hiace vans and Hilux pickups on a regular basis, and I was impressed with them. If Toyota would import their small diesels, I would absolutely buy one.

However, I know from bitter experience that not all diesels are created equal. There are plenty of poorly designed and manufactured diesels out there, and they are invariably a lot more expensive to repair than gas engines. Our limited selection of consumer diesels here in the US seems to have more than its share of lemons. VW's eat high pressure fuel pumps and VW's in general are a nightmare to work on. Early Duramax's ate injectors. Various Powerstrokes have had major head gasket problems. Jeep Liberty diesels use a VM Motori engine that is known the world over or being a cheap piece of junk. The new Ram 1500 is going to use an updated version of this turd. GM has it long and storied history of making half-assed diesels, and I expect no less from the Cruze diesel. A Dodge/Ram with a Cummins or a newer GM Duramax are about the only good options we have, and they are way too big/thirsty/expensive for my tastes.

I would love to own a quality diesel in a reasonably sized vehicle for a reasonable price, but so far that hasn't been an option here, and I don't know if that's going to change. Right now I think Mazda's new diesel is potentially the best option we have, though it's too early to be sure.
Couldn't agree more (well, except the VW "nightmare" comment, they are "different", but, I didn't have a problem working on mine), and I was a huge diesel fan, having owned no less than 10 versions of the VW TD and TDI models. (Ranging from a 1984 Golf 1.6 TD to my latest, 2006 Jetta TDi). Your view on the VM Motori engines is spot on, especially in our market, which is very diesel orientated (over 60% of VW's sold up here are diesel). I remember when the Jeep Liberty was finally offered with the 2.8 CRD, I actually convinced my father in law to buy one (he still hates me for that), since he had a 3.7 gasser that was a pig on fuel and gutless to boot. Well, as he and most owners quickly found out, that VM model R428 (2.8L DOHC 4 cylinder pos, which was really just a bored out 2.5L R425) was an absolute "dog", not only did it not provide the mpg numbers Chrysler was hoping for (most owners, my dad included, only saw an increase of 2-4mpg combined), but, it was very noisey (even for a diesel), and not "torquey" at all, as was promised. I saw MANY sit on Chrysler lots, both new, and used and dealers pratically having to give them away after a year or two.

Now I see the new 2014 Dodge Ram is also using a VM Motori engine, the A630 3.0L V6 model, I thought Chrysler would have learned their lesson, and stick with a more proven and reliable MB sourced diesel (at least from the public's viewpoint anyway), afterall, its all about "optics" and marketing.

I see that the Chevy Cruze is also a VM Motori design (the RA 420 2.0L DOHC), which has seen reasonable success in the EU, although Daewoo is building it for GM, so, that remains to be seen.

I think Montag is right, unless you can "prove" to NA consumers that the product has value, when there is "cheaper" alternatives already here in the form of direct injected gas motors, it will truly be a "hard sell". I absolutely loved owning and driving my TDI equipped cars over the years, but, when the combustion engine technology got much better, I slowly switched over to petrol again. I have also noticed that many of my TDI "bretheren" are starting to do the same, since it doesn't make sense finacially anymore.
Now, if our oil refineries in NA adapt thier methods for making fuel, much like referineries in overseas do now (ours are geared toward gasoline, with diesel oil being a "byproduct", since we sell more gas), that could change (cheap diesel at the pumps again). But, in order for that to happen, hundreds of refineries need hundreds of millions of dollars in upgrades, and you know that aint going to happen anytime soon.... jinstall, I think your predictions are both 15 years too late and 15 years too early at the same time.... time will tell though.
04-01-2013 04:22 PM
Missourileo
Quote:
Originally Posted by whynotthinkwhynot View Post
If I had the extra cash, I'd probably buy a used Leaf since those can be had for about what I could build an electric for myself.................

Yeah, but would you really want to be caught in one of those..........yuck. Japanimation at it's worst.
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