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Thread: Chevy Cruze Diesel on the way.... Reply to Thread
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Topic Review (Newest First)
02-14-2013 07:50 PM
Lscman
Quote:
Originally Posted by jinstall View Post
Who brought up road taxes? Was not me. What even fueled the road tax idea?
As I explained, the road tax concern was brought up after YOU boasted that you could drive our public roads more cheaply by owning a diesel vehicle with $1K conversion kit that facilitates use of cooking oil (which includes ZERO road taxes) instead of road pump fuel. Under this scenario, you save money by shifting your fair share of road tax burden (over 50 cents per gallon) to other gas and diesel owners who do not evade taxes. You might as well use off-road farm belt fuel, heating oil or slugs for the subway because other taxpayers take it on the chin in the same way.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jinstall View Post
Is there legal theft I am not aware of?
Probably. As I already explained, tax evasion taken to extremes is commonly recognized as a form of legal theft. Certain people use this to their advantage by passing their tax burdens onto hard working honest folks. Feel free to google it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jinstall View Post
Why is it you assume I don't pay my fair share of taxes?
Because you openly condone tax evasion activity, OK? Who is paying your road taxes when you're driving around on cooking oil? Again, read your posts.

How is this confusing when I already explained it in such detail?? Mitt Romney seems smart but can't see a problem with making $10,000/hour then hiding this money off-shore to pay an effective 13% tax rate, so I guess I shouldn't be surprised.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jinstall View Post
I have been paying taxes since 1985, how about you?
Well, I was in my late 20's that year....already paying income taxes for close to a decade. As you know, most government employees can retire before age of 60 with benefits the public can only dream about. This goes for local, state or federal government, not just military or police. Many live in a bubble thinking revenue grows on trees. They pass laws to make it true lol. The "base" is a tax sheltered perk zone run at a huge loss to benefit a particular group with taxpayers covering that. This is why folks in reserves flip out when a local base closes. It's like free membership to costco or sams club except 100x better. This is about saving cash on goods and convenience, not saving the nation. Commissary is operated more like an indian reservation or non-profit, rules skewed by government to favor a particular group. We pay, you benefit....whatever. Please know regular USA citizens have to work to age 67 or later now and deal with huge copays, insurance denials and employee 401K saving retirement plans that don't come close. I have close relatives in the military, sorry if I don't show much empathy for your wife paying more taxes than you lol.
02-12-2013 11:00 PM
mjd4277
Quote:
Originally Posted by jinstall View Post
Diesel-electric has been powering factories and locomotives for more than 100 years. Still power locomotives today.
And some transit buses as well(I guess the P.C. term would be dual mode).
02-12-2013 01:27 AM
Kevastator Whoo go get em! ^
02-12-2013 01:22 AM
jinstall Who brought up road taxes? Was not me. What even fueled the road tax idea?

" No kidding, that's nothing more than theft of public services." Theft is not illigal? Is there a legal theft I am not aware of?

2012 F250 4x4 LWB 4dr averages 6.8 mpg 12 months I had it.
2012 F350 4x4 LWB 4dr with 6000lbs plus wench and off road tires NON-E85 8mpg according to the EOD guys that drive it everyday.

I ran the truck on regular fuel one tank full and averaged 2.2mpg better. Same off/on road duties.

Why is it you assume I don't pay my fair share of taxes? Because I shop on base and at the commissary? I buy my fuel on base where it is cheaper? I'm sure I have been paying taxes longer than you have, and I have to pay taxes on my wife's income from another country here in the US. That means we get taxed on her income at 62%, your paying what percent on yours, 23%? You might want to go back and rethink your perspective on my personal finances. I have been paying taxes since 1985, how about you?

Diesel-electric has been powering factories and locomotives for more than 100 years. Still power locomotives today.
02-10-2013 10:39 PM
whynotthinkwhynot I still say hybrids would be better as diesel electric instead of gas electric. Especially the Volt with it's series/parallel configuration. That was what the PNGV cars were- without the battery tech we have now. It's simple: TDI engine drives generator, generator powers electric motor. It would have to translate to about 120 mpge before it would be worth it though.
02-10-2013 08:21 PM
Lscman
Quote:
Originally Posted by jinstall View Post
LOL you make me laugh. Who said anything about illigel fuels? Who said anything about stealing? LOL I have 2 security clearances, there is not enough money in the world to make me steal anything and cause me to loose them....This thread kinda makes my day.
Thanks, my post was intended to solicit thought and reflection. Mission accomplished!

Please read my post closer though. I never said tax evasion through the use of cooking oil was illegal. It might be best described as legal theft or tax evasion. I never used the words illegal or steal. If you want to drive our public roads and have everyone else cover your share of the cost (tax burden), go ahead. But don't tell me that paying no tax is cheaper, duh, of course. The road usage tax burden to the consumer is over 50 cents per gallon in the form of Gasoline and Diesel taxes at the pump. If you're using the roads in a motorized vehicle you should be paying the road use taxes to cover them. Running cooking oil is theft of public services because road taxes are bypasses, but as of today, there's little law against this activity. It is always cheaper to avoid taxes, but that really isn't in the spirit of this thread comparing operating costs. Cooking oil is really no different than off-road fuel or heating oil from a tax evasion standpoint because taxes are bypassed in the same way. Mitt Romney is the master of tax evasion and makes no apologies, so why should you? Please feel free to laugh at folks who pay their fair share of taxes or pretend that using the public highway system without paying taxes to cover this work is fair or appropriate.

PS: The alcohol in E85 raises the effective motor and research octane of gasoline. It sure as heck does not lower it. If your work vehicles running E85 are detonating then their fuel delivery systems are defective causing an excessive lean condition. My Dodge minivan and Ford Taurus both love E85. The E85 program is a make-work program to benefit farmers. It does little or nothing to reduce our dependence on foreign oils.
02-10-2013 02:26 PM
jinstall
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lscman View Post
Time out, please. You have no idea what portion of the picture I'm looking at. You make bold, global statements about the superiority of diesel powerplants that have no merit beyond farm tractors and commercial rigs. Your argument is simply not supported by objective, empirical data (facts). Have you compared the EPA ratings for cruze gas vs diesel? Clearly not. A Chevy Cruze diesel is not a Jeep CRD SUV. The EPA tests are based upon actual control testing instead of generalities, hype, assumptions and guessing. EPA results are the best that consumers have to go by. Again, the Cruze diesel is not an F350 dualie tow vehicle or a commercial truck that sits idling for 12hrs in a truckstop every night. Cruze diesel is not a slam dunk choice from an eco, cost of ownership or overall efficiency standpoint and I assure you sales figures will bear this out.

Audi's recent success with racing diesel powerplants is the outcome of sanctioning body rules that served to aggressively encourage and promote alternative technologies. This is done by tipping scales to favor diesel power. The same rule books clip the wings of Ferrari, Corvette and Porsche to ensure parity. For example to keep things fair, the track-legal competition version of Viper typically produces 150 to 200HP LESS than a dealer showroom car. Race-legal GTS-R is limited to 450 to 500 hp while stock Viper produces 640HP. They are not penalizing Audi diesel race cars in this fashion or they would be too slow for pace car or parade lap duty lol. This is how Audi diesel magically passes a Porsche on a race track. Bizarre race rules allow a NASCAR Taurus (originally a $25K pedestrian sedan) to run quicker lap times on a speedway or road couse than a LeMans prepped Ferrari (originally a $250K sports car). This is why race results serve as useless testimony for the merits of diesel power in an econobox.

You really can't even quantify the benefit of owning a Jeep CRD or how long it takes to pay back because you would need to own a gas version and operate them under the exact same cycle and duty. You don't own a gas version, so your "pays for itself" conclusion is just a guess that does not hold water. I need to see calculations, not just declarations. Since it's a SUV with significant weight and frontal area, I imagine ithe diesel uses less fuel and offers a better torque curve. But hey, let's be honest because true cost of ownership must take into account the option cost. This is why hybrids offering double the city mileage struggle to break even with gas cars over the life of the vehicle. Again, the EPA does this sort of analysis for the consumer. I'll rely upon experts using scientifically-sound methods for objective comparisons, cost of ownership or payback.

To your last point, I'm not interested in hearing how driving your diesel car on cooking oils or off-road fuel (without paying your fair share of road taxes) is cheaper. No kidding, that's nothing more than theft of public services. Other taxpayers (both diesel and gas) who buy fuel at the pump are being forced to cover your share of road construction and repair. I own a gas car, but realize I can save money recycling cooking oil too. Cooking oil has value no matter what car you own. I can heat my house with it without stealing over 50 cents out of a fellow taxpayer's pocket for every gallon burned. I'd never consider a $3800 diesel option and $1000 cooking oil conversion kit for an econobox.
LOL you make me laugh. Who said anything about illigel fuels? Who said anything about stealing? LOL I have 2 security clearances, there is not enough money in the world to make me steal anything and cause me to loose them.

60% of all cars sold in the EU were diesel, they make up a MAJORITY of sales. The EU does not use gasoline/Benzine engines in commercial vehicles. I can out tow a 3.7 gasser anyday and my MPG, City, Highway and Towing, is way better than the 3.7 gasser. I just did a GVW 10280lbs tow from DC to El Paso, 2300 miles and averages 18mpg. You might get 11mpg in the 3.7 IF it could tow that much. When I was in Germany and traveling at autobahn speeds, 100-110mph I averaged 19mpg, no other SUV at the time available in the US, got that kind of MPG. Mind you I was also paying $8-9 a gallon then as well, so yes it saved me money over a gasser. I have driven all kinds of small engine diesels and they amaze me how the MPG/L pkm are so much better than gas engines. They also allow for TOWING at normal to BETTER than the gas versions, to include HYBRIDS. You have to look at the WHOLE picture, not just numbers.

Bio-diesel in MY JEEP actually makes it run better and quieter and causes no damage to the engine, injection system or emmissions.

Diesel, every one in the fleet has been good so far, minus the buses.

E85 in all my work vehicles, sedans-trucks causes detonation issues, poor MPG and emmissions failures.

Hybrids, well they do not make anything for work trucks and the sedans spend more time in the shop than on the road, except for one.

Hydrogen, well it is hit an miss for a around the base vehicle.

Electric, the first fleet ones have showed up after they were all removed due to faults in the charging systems the first week they arrived.

This has been since 2005, in the US and Europe.

Small displacement, forced induction engines are the trend now and will continue until and more solid alternative can be found. But then again, diesel's have been doing this since 1897 thanks to Rudolf Diesel.

Hybrids have been around for more than 100 years, and look how far we have gotten with it.

Hybrid use is like using a garden hose on a house fire, it works but is not getting the job done.

This thread kinda makes my day.
02-10-2013 01:50 PM
jinstall exactly.
02-09-2013 09:02 AM
OPsDad There is one thing that is obvious here: The tree huggers are making more problems than they fix. Get rid of this "eco" nonsense, I say, unless it's short for "economical" instead of "ecological".
02-08-2013 10:05 PM
Lscman
Quote:
Originally Posted by jinstall View Post
Your still looking at a small portion of the picture and not the whole picture. You have to look at the complete manufacturing process of a hybrid compared to a normal IC engine. MPG is only part of the eco footprint, you have to look at the entire process. For $1000 I can run my Jeep off of used vegi oil, the same can be done with the Cruze and other diesels. Diesel will continue to be a more efficent IC engine than gasoline. It is also more friendly to tuning performance gains with slight electronic modifications. The EU has been proving this for years. This is why the Audi's have taking flak for years in motorsports. Clean diesels have been around for a while and will continue to increase. Owning a diesel is a long term commitment, and it does pay for itself when you own one. Mine has.
Time out, please. You have no idea what portion of the picture I'm looking at. You make bold, global statements about the superiority of diesel powerplants that have no merit beyond farm tractors and commercial rigs. Your argument is simply not supported by objective, empirical data (facts). Have you compared the EPA ratings for cruze gas vs diesel? Clearly not. A Chevy Cruze diesel is not a Jeep CRD SUV. The EPA tests are based upon actual control testing instead of generalities, hype, assumptions and guessing. EPA results are the best that consumers have to go by. Again, the Cruze diesel is not an F350 dualie tow vehicle or a commercial truck that sits idling for 12hrs in a truckstop every night. Cruze diesel is not a slam dunk choice from an eco, cost of ownership or overall efficiency standpoint and I assure you sales figures will bear this out.

Audi's recent success with racing diesel powerplants is the outcome of sanctioning body rules that served to aggressively encourage and promote alternative technologies. This is done by tipping scales to favor diesel power. The same rule books clip the wings of Ferrari, Corvette and Porsche to ensure parity. For example to keep things fair, the track-legal competition version of Viper typically produces 150 to 200HP LESS than a dealer showroom car. Race-legal GTS-R is limited to 450 to 500 hp while stock Viper produces 640HP. They are not penalizing Audi diesel race cars in this fashion or they would be too slow for pace car or parade lap duty lol. This is how Audi diesel magically passes a Porsche on a race track. Bizarre race rules allow a NASCAR Taurus (originally a $25K pedestrian sedan) to run quicker lap times on a speedway or road couse than a LeMans prepped Ferrari (originally a $250K sports car). This is why race results serve as useless testimony for the merits of diesel power in an econobox.

You really can't even quantify the benefit of owning a Jeep CRD or how long it takes to pay back because you would need to own a gas version and operate them under the exact same cycle and duty. You don't own a gas version, so your "pays for itself" conclusion is just a guess that does not hold water. I need to see calculations, not just declarations. Since it's a SUV with significant weight and frontal area, I imagine ithe diesel uses less fuel and offers a better torque curve. But hey, let's be honest because true cost of ownership must take into account the option cost. This is why hybrids offering double the city mileage struggle to break even with gas cars over the life of the vehicle. Again, the EPA does this sort of analysis for the consumer. I'll rely upon experts using scientifically-sound methods for objective comparisons, cost of ownership or payback.

To your last point, I'm not interested in hearing how driving your diesel car on cooking oils or off-road fuel (without paying your fair share of road taxes) is cheaper. No kidding, that's nothing more than theft of public services. Other taxpayers (both diesel and gas) who buy fuel at the pump are being forced to cover your share of road construction and repair. I own a gas car, but realize I can save money recycling cooking oil too. Cooking oil has value no matter what car you own. I can heat my house with it without stealing over 50 cents out of a fellow taxpayer's pocket for every gallon burned. I'd never consider a $3800 diesel option and $1000 cooking oil conversion kit for an econobox.
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