Ford Focus Forum, Ford Focus ST Forum, Ford Focus RS Forum - Reply to Topic
Ford Focus Forum
HomeContact UsAbout UsGalleryDiscussion ForumsMarketplace


Go Back   Ford Focus Forum, Ford Focus ST Forum, Ford Focus RS Forum > Ford Focus ST > Focus ST EcoBoost Performance (2013-Current) > Anyone tried E85 yet?

Focus ST EcoBoost Performance (2013-Current) The place to chat about the 2.0L EcoBoost engine performance, tuning and exhaust related upgrades.

Search This Forum | Image Search | Advanced Search    
Ford Focus Tire & Wheels FocusFanatics Merchandise

Thread: Anyone tried E85 yet? Reply to Thread
Title:
  
Message:
Post Icons
You may choose an icon for your message from the following list:
 

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the Ford Focus Forum, Ford Focus ST Forum, Ford Focus RS Forum forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.



Additional Options
Miscellaneous Options

Topic Review (Newest First)
05-28-2014 04:14 AM
sailor
Quote:
Originally Posted by iminhell View Post
... and for some reason that racing kid never did think about that formula under my SN was. I've been on booze for 6? years or so now.
Notice the last post?

iminhell's running alky, good local source for him.

Tom just doesn't want to do a performance tune for cars that could end up with anything in the tank...

Two different responses depending on circumstances. Neither of those hates it per se, just use it or not depending on availability/consistency.
05-28-2014 01:48 AM
enginjoe Here's some current articles I just read:

Car craft June 2014 - Turbo Junkies, they all run E85
Car Craft July 2015 - Horsepower!, page 10-11, 900hp E85 turbo 4.6 Ford

It's in all the good car magazines and on all the good forums. People in FI cars are using E85 if it's available. It's been proven on the ST now that you can make more power with plenty of safety than you can on 93.

Go ahead...Stay slow...
05-02-2014 12:24 AM
iminhell
Quote:
Originally Posted by ScoobyStang View Post
Essentially only 15% of the fuel is actually petrol, the rest is corn juice. The chemical stored volatility in E85 is much less, which is why cars burn through it much faster. there just has to be more fuel as a total to be dumped into the combustion chamber

Chemistry has escaped you. Look above my pic ... now find that same thing for Gasoline (or Octane).
Do math, balancing equations.
You'll arrive at an answer that has nothing to do with any volatility or energy. Only a quantity chemical in, quantity chemical out.


... and for some reason that racing kid never did think about that formula under my SN was. I've been on booze for 6? years or so now.
05-01-2014 11:04 PM
ScoobyStang This discussion is still going on? Says in my post and site history I'm a noob, but I did spend enough time in a 500hp supercharged mustang and a 300hp WRX to know that E85, for the most part, has nothing to do with an octane rating. :/

Essentially only 15% of the fuel is actually petrol, the rest is corn juice. The chemical stored volatility in E85 is much less, which is why cars burn through it much faster. there just has to be more fuel as a total to be dumped into the combustion chamber. More fuel + added cooling capacity in the ethanol = more power. The cooling effect (working much like water/meth) is what gives more power, and tuning wise is a whole different ball game. Because of the cooling engine knock (detonation) allows for tuners MUCH more room to drop the AFR down even further in order to make more power. Petrol be damned the car is running mostly on cooler air, alcohol, and a small amount of petrol. That said, the cooling effect does give the overall impression that the octane is higher, when in reality the motor and research octanes of the fuel itself are pretty low. Furthermore, the E85 at the pump is never really an 85/15 or 70/30 even split. I mean over time the two components are just going to separate a little in the well tanks of gas stations. Safest bet is to make your own brew and buy Straight ethanol from a racing fuel supplier and mix it yourself with 93/91 octane and keep an Ethanol analyzer in the car...those aren't cheap however. Any tuner will talk till they are blue in the face that 100 Octane all day long over E85. It's just safer...and probably cheaper as well saving the cost of having to do a Flex Fuel/E85 conversion.

History Lesson: The initial reasoning behind E85 was to combat carbon footprint and too lengthen the worldwide fuel storage. Theoretically speaking of course. The concept was that it was cleaner burning (debatable), and that by using less petrol on fill ups, that would preserve storage en masse. The powers that be could have cared less about our wallets and gas tanks in our grocery-go-getters. That whole theory was blown out of the water when China's economy hit a boon and the car market there exploded, thus, throwing the theory out of the water for prolonging fuel stores. Meh.

As a side note, whomever said that water/meth injection was the best route, needs to have their fingers broke for typing that. One small hiccup at WOT, in a failed servo, tank runs dry, clogged/failed jet/pump, kink in nylon hose, or the stars misaligned and your engine blows. It's a cheaper set up at first, but there are WAAAAY too many instances of engines blowing. And I'm sorry once you hear knock, there is no way to kill the engine fast enough before damage is done. My last tuner/installer punched me in face, or at least he wanted to, for me even suggesting meth (EFI Logics in Bethel, CT).

If a car is not plumped for E85, just be ready for shelling out $$$ for an alcohol safe pump (walbro makes a 416lph set up), o rings, injectors and quite possibly fuel rails/lines. Anything less than a 300lph pump w/E85 is just not enough for making over 280-300whp safely (that's for a boxer motor, not sure for a FWD set up though). I did this conversion...twice. It's not fun and your wife/girlfriend will despise your car, and quite possibly you. But we don't pay attention to those things in this world.
03-17-2014 08:09 PM
1turbofocus For every one that you know likes it there is one that doesnt

I have been tuning the Focus and other cars for over 30 years and have a steller reputation on tuning both NA and FI

I will go pay 7-8.00 at the track for fuel that I KNOW what the octane is and that it is reliable and will keep my engine safe , safety is the key , performance is second and I never tune on the edge with any octane fuel

So I take it you have never checked the octane , moisture content, specific gravity of the fuel you like so much , that toy you have pictured only shows how much the E mixture is and nothing more that means anything , when you have it checked properly like I have done many times then you will actually know what your talking about as for the pump e fuels, then come back and talk to me

Tom
03-17-2014 06:21 PM
Rracing
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1turbofocus View Post
So you have no idea of octane , no idea how much knock you have , no idea of water content , your only checking the E rating

I wish you the best

Tom
Of course I know what the content is? out here in CA we don't have a large swing in E85 and the gas out here sucks! a $ 20.00 kit will tell you what it is.

I am not using it in a competition, I give myself plenty of room on the tune, so go pay $ 7 to $8 for race fuel to get a few extra horsepower and you can tune it on the edge. And I monitor my engine all the time! I even use it at the autocross track and so do a lot of others with no problems.

Maybe you ought to learn how to tune it correctly, there are a lot of tuners out here that will disagree with you, I race with them all the time.
03-17-2014 03:32 PM
1turbofocus So you have no idea of octane , no idea how much knock you have , no idea of water content , your only checking the E rating

I wish you the best

Tom
03-17-2014 01:42 PM
Rracing
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1turbofocus View Post
I only wish this was true


Add back in that 25-30% more e85 it takes to make the same power or go the same distance and that emission saving doesnt look as good it becomes marginal in most areas and the cost savings also becomes marginal

Building a e85 powered hot rod requires special rubber lines , special metal lines , fuel pump , filters , foam in the fuel cells , tune for 25-30 % more fuel so bigger injectors , and I can go on , then a new engine from the unregulated pump e85 because the octane isnt there

Got anything newer ?

Tom
I guess everyone has there opinion, I been running it in my ST for over 6 months, I do have an E 85 analyzer on board to check the consistency, very cheap insurance, my final dyno was 292 whp with 404 TQ off the k03, also have it in my race car full 100% E85 1.6 L 310whp pulled the engine down after 50 track days it looks new, I always tune E85 to the wet side, it doesn't loose any horsepower and keeps it safe. And I sell the analyzer if anyone is interested? Here is a picture of it installed on my ST
03-17-2014 01:22 PM
1turbofocus
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rracing View Post
The big attention getter here is that the higher octane of E85 translates into more compression, more boost, or more of both. That means more horsepower. (I'll stop for a moment while you mentally calculate how much more power and throttle response your current engine would have with an extra three points of compression or another 5-10 pounds of boost.) The only downside is the amount of energy in a gallon of E85 is less by 5 percent to 15 percent. Basically, you'd need to carry 11 gallons of E85 to go the same distance you went on 10 gallons of gasoline. Big deal. This is not really the negative it appears to be on the surface, because E85 costs less per gallon.
I only wish this was true

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rracing View Post
Unlike Schwarzenegger's hydrogen highway, E85 is the real deal with no down side. For starters, vehicles running E85 pollute less. Compared to ordinary gasoline, E85 emits 10 percent fewer oxides of nitrogen, 40 percent less carbon monoxide, and 80 percent fewer sulfates. Best of all, building E85-powered cars requires no big change in the way cars are built, maintained or hot rodded.
Add back in that 25-30% more e85 it takes to make the same power or go the same distance and that emission saving doesnt look as good it becomes marginal in most areas and the cost savings also becomes marginal

Building a e85 powered hot rod requires special rubber lines , special metal lines , fuel pump , filters , foam in the fuel cells , tune for 25-30 % more fuel so bigger injectors , and I can go on , then a new engine from the unregulated pump e85 because the octane isnt there

Got anything newer ?

Tom
03-17-2014 05:47 AM
sailor It's appropriate to use quotation marks at least when quoting an article.

Don't see any reason to doubt your results or experience, that's not really a factor in the discussion of whether tuning for E85 will work without issues throughout the US.

As far as I can tell, info. from here, other threads, and outside sources shows that E85 isn't consistent in quality or availability throughout the country.

You can safely tune for max. performance from it due to your location it seems, others don't have that option without buying it in drums.

Even tuning for 93 octane won't let you drive anywhere, that availability varies as well. Only plus there is that you can be fairly sure of what you get from the pump, and know without testing when the right fuel isn't available.

E85 can be useful, but until avail. in standardized form everywhere it's limited to use as a "flex-fuel".
This thread has more than 10 replies. Click here to review the whole thread.

Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 08:57 AM.


Copyright 2002-2014 FocusFanatics.com. All Rights Reserved : Privacy Policy : Advertise Information

Focus Fanatics Ford Focus Forum offers many fun ways for you to engage with other Ford Focus Owners from across the world. Whether it be about the aftermarket performance modifications, technical how-to's, European tuned suspension or awesome fuel economy similar to the Audi S3, Ford Fusion and Acura TLX. You can find all Ford Focus and Focus ST related information here. Join our Ford Focus discussion forums and chat with local Focus enthusiasts in your area. Challenger Hellcat - Charger Hellcat