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Thread: Retrofit AGS (Kysor Active Grille Radiator Shutters) Reply to Thread
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Topic Review (Newest First)
01-20-2013 10:05 AM
dan50 Not sure Kysor shutters or taping off grille openings will have anything to do with how quickly the car warms up.

Until coolant in the engine reaches a "normal" temperature the thermostat is closed, preventing the warmed coolant from circulating through the radiator. So while closed shutters reduce drag, preventing air from flowing over stagnant, ambient temperature coolant in the radiator shouldn't speed warm-up. I suppose closed shutters would increase underhood air temps a bit, that really shouldn't affect warm-up times in any significant way.
01-19-2013 11:21 PM
Scott02 More data...
So i decided, in a temporary fashion, to completely block off the 3 black openings below the license plate and the one body color opening that is the furthest down on the bumper itself. I then took it for a test drive on some 45mph rural roads, and then 20min on a 65mph highway, and this is what I found...

Outside temp was between 45degF and 50degF, the car still did not hit operating temp "fast".
On my 20min highway drive, it still only reached operating temp when i got to my destination.
I never saw anything above 200degF on my scangauge.
The radiator fan did not turn on.

When time permits, I will be blocking off even more of the grille openings to see what happens.
01-09-2013 11:08 PM
suss6052
Quote:
Originally Posted by powermax View Post
Latelly mine are almost always 100% closed. Canadian winter + short route to work.
I've seen them stay closed over 10+ miles lately in winter, but during the summer I almost never saw them even slightly move, doesn't mean they hadn't run calibration tests or to have been partially closed while driving but opening again when the car gets warm on a warm day.

Of course on 40+F days I've seen the shutters close when it was 20-30ish in the morning and then open up on the way to grab lunch even after only 1.3 miles or so.
01-09-2013 10:59 PM
powermax
Quote:
Originally Posted by suss6052 View Post
It depends on where or how you drive, I don't have a scan gauge, but I do have the AGS and if you put the car into test mode (hold down the left OK button on the steering wheel from before the car starts until after the computer boots up and says TEST and scroll up or down you'll see various test parameters including the actual temperature sensor reading in degrees C.

The standard gauge is basically an idiot light for the most part reading normal before the car has even heated above 50C, normal operating temperature is nearer to 90-97C depending on conditions. I haven't timed the warm up, but the car can go from 14 or 21C up to around 60 + C in just a mile or so in town at slow speeds and getting stuck at lights, e.x. stopping for lunch during the work day, the car cools down to 50ish c and then heats back up to maybe 70ish on the return mile depending on how long you take to get back out.

The AGS doesn't seem to work for me visibly unless its really cold and I've commanded maximum heating performance (max defrost), or rather it didhn't start to become noticeably effective until winter. During the summer months or with the a/c on in the fall I did not see the shutters completely closed.

This doesn't mean they weren't working or that they are broken, they could have been partially closed while driving along, however when the car was parked each time I went to look through the lower grille (the one that is easier to see the shutters in) was wide open.

The top and bottom grille shutters are linked to a single motor and temperature sensor as far as I know.
Latelly mine are almost always 100% closed. Canadian winter + short route to work.
01-09-2013 06:42 PM
suss6052 I forgot to check to see if the shutters were closed tonight, but in the 9.8 or so miles the car only increased in temperature from 14 C to 92 peak (dropping to 88 C getting off of the freeway and coming off the ramp, heating back up to about 90C by the time I parked the car.

The gauge reads about half (Hex 41 any point above 40-45C) but below that it does tend to climb semi normally.
01-08-2013 11:21 PM
suss6052
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott02 View Post
However, just for speculation purposes, if I'm the controls engineer in charge, and I have all the other zillion inputs at my fingertips, I may dream something more complicated up. Maybe something like including vehicle speed into the equation that positions the AGS. Who knows?
Quote:
Active Grille Shutter - Overview

The active grille shutter system (when equipped) is comprised of the grille shutter assembly and the grille shutter actuator. The active grille shutter system is primarily used to maximize fuel economy by reducing aerodynamic drag on the vehicle. The active grille shutter system is also used to shorten engine warm-up time, increasing engine efficiency and providing heat to the vehicle occupants in a timely manner. The grille shutter actuator receives position commands from the PCM. The active grille shutter system carries out a calibration sequence whenever the engine is started, fully opening and closing the shutters before being positioned in the programmed position as requested by the PCM.


PCM inputs/outputs used for controlling of grille shutters are the:

•ECT sensor
•IAT sensor
•A/C pressure transducer
•APP sensor
•ABS module (through the High Speed Controller Area Network (HS-CAN)
•Engine cooling fan motor
•Engine oil temperature
The car does use a myriad of inputs to determine AGS function as listed above, the abs sensor input is for vehicle speed as explained below:

Quote:
Active Grille Shutter

The grille shutter actuator positions the grille shutters based on commands from the PCM. The grille shutter moves 90 degrees from fully closed to fully open and, based on the position commanded by the PCM, is set in 1 of 16 positions (approximately 6 degrees between positions).

During normal operation, the grille shutter may be partially to fully open when the engine is off, depending on the ambient temperature. When the engine is started, a calibration of the grille shutter system occurs, which typically takes 15-20 seconds. The grille shutter system performs the calibration sequence by detecting the end positions, open and closed. The calibration sequence can begin in either direction, open or closed, and continues until it is successful or a fault is sensed. A long pause may occur between the 2 portions (open/close) of the calibration sequence. Calibration of the grille shutter system cannot be manually requested, it only occurs as determined by the grille shutter actuator. If certain faults are present (shutter blocked or actuator error), a recalibration is initiated in an attempt to resolve the problem. If the problem is not resolved after a calibrated number of attempts (usually 3 or 4), a timer starts and sets a DTC when the timer reaches a predetermined limit. Other faults also trigger a recalibration request, but not until a grille shutter DTC is set in the PCM.

The PCM communicates the desired position (open or closed) of the grille shutter based on various PCM inputs (vehicle speed, coolant temperature, ambient temperature, A/C system pressure, etc.). The PCM communicates to the grille shutter actuator via a LIN. The LIN supports bi-directional communication between the grille shutter actuator and PCM, allowing the grille shutter actuator to communicate position and fault information to the PCM.

The PCM sets grille shutter Diagnostic Trouble Codes (DTCs) when the fault information is communicated by the grille shutter actuator for a predetermined amount of time. Any failures of the LIN for over 10 seconds continuously results in the grille shutter actuator positioning the grille shutter fully open. There is no indication to the driver of the vehicle when a fault with the grille shutter system is present or a grille shutter DTC is set in the PCM.

Component Description

Grille Shutter Actuator

The grille shutter actuator is a smart motor which receives position requests from the PCM via the LIN. One of the grille shutter blinds connects to the grille shutter actuator using a retainer. The grille shutter actuator can be serviced individually or as an entire assembly, which includes the grille shutter, grille shutter actuator, retainer, housing and jumper harness.

Grille Shutter

The grille shutter is comprised of shutter blinds which are linked to each other. One of the individual shutter blinds is fixed to the grille shutter actuator. When the grille shutter actuator moves, it moves the attached shutter which causes the other linked shutters to move. The grille shutter is serviced as an assembly (individual shutter blinds are not serviceable) or as an entire assembly, which includes the grille shutter, grille shutter actuator, retainer, housing and jumper harness.
01-08-2013 10:53 PM
Scott02 However, just for speculation purposes, if I'm the controls engineer in charge, and I have all the other zillion inputs at my fingertips, I may dream something more complicated up. Maybe something like including vehicle speed into the equation that positions the AGS. Who knows?
01-08-2013 10:47 PM
Scott02
Quote:
Originally Posted by suss6052 View Post
(hold down the left OK button on the steering wheel from before the car starts until after the computer boots up and says TEST
Learned something new today. Thanks. Something to play with on the drive to work tomorrow.
Quote:
Originally Posted by suss6052 View Post
The AGS doesn't seem to work for me visibly unless its really cold and I've commanded maximum heating performance (max defrost), or rather it didn't start to become noticeably effective until winter. During the summer months or with the a/c on in the fall I did not see the shutters completely closed.

This doesn't mean they weren't working or that they are broken, they could have been partially closed while driving along, however when the car was parked each time I went to look through the lower grille (the one that is easier to see the shutters in) was wide open.

The top and bottom grille shutters are linked to a single motor and temperature sensor as far as I know.
The fun thing is, there is really three temperature control items impacting the temperature of the car.
1) A mechanical temperature control valve, or "thermostat", that opens and closes around 195degF
2) An electrically driven cooling fan on your radiator, that turns on at some temperature higher than 195degF. So for arguements sake, lets call that 205degF.
2a) Is this a two stage fan?
3) the AGS system, which let us assume should be trying to hold a temperature of 200degF.

Thus...
<195degF, thermostat closed, AGS closed, radiator fan off
~197degF, thermostat opens some, AGS closed, radiator fan off
~198degF, thermostat opened, AGS opened some, radiator fan off
~199degF, thermostat opened, AGS opened some more, radiator fan off
... you get the point
~205degF, Thermostat opened, AGS opened fully, radiator fan on

So, if I had AGS, I would have expected them to be completely closed until I reached mile # 16 of my testing this morning.
01-08-2013 10:00 PM
suss6052
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott02 View Post
In my opinion, yes, the AGS are why you heat up faster than a non-AGS car.

But with that said, are you sure you're heating up fast?
Why I ask is, that gauge on your dash is nothing more than a fancy looking idiot light. It's terribly innaccurate to reality, as it jumps up to the middle of the range, or what seems like operating temperature, but from what I can recall this morning, it's approx 50degF colder than operating temp.

What we really need is for someone else who has the AGS to be able to take data on a cold morning like I did. Then we would really see the difference.

Hmmmmm, perhaps I will have to go to my local dealer and drive a new one with AGS and watch how it heats up on my scangauge.
It depends on where or how you drive, I don't have a scan gauge, but I do have the AGS and if you put the car into test mode (hold down the left OK button on the steering wheel from before the car starts until after the computer boots up and says TEST and scroll up or down you'll see various test parameters including the actual temperature sensor reading in degrees C.

The standard gauge is basically an idiot light for the most part reading normal before the car has even heated above 50C, normal operating temperature is nearer to 90-97C depending on conditions. I haven't timed the warm up, but the car can go from 14 or 21C up to around 60 + C in just a mile or so in town at slow speeds and getting stuck at lights, e.x. stopping for lunch during the work day, the car cools down to 50ish c and then heats back up to maybe 70ish on the return mile depending on how long you take to get back out.

The AGS doesn't seem to work for me visibly unless its really cold and I've commanded maximum heating performance (max defrost), or rather it didn't start to become noticeably effective until winter. During the summer months or with the a/c on in the fall I did not see the shutters completely closed.

This doesn't mean they weren't working or that they are broken, they could have been partially closed while driving along, however when the car was parked each time I went to look through the lower grille (the one that is easier to see the shutters in) was wide open.

The top and bottom grille shutters are linked to a single motor and temperature sensor as far as I know.
01-08-2013 09:49 PM
Scott02
Quote:
Originally Posted by UnleashedBeast View Post
So that's why my Focus Titanium's heater warms up so fast. I thought it was due to a small capacity radiator system, but looks like the shutters are doing the deed.
In my opinion, yes, the AGS are why you heat up faster than a non-AGS car.

But with that said, are you sure you're heating up fast?
Why I ask is, that gauge on your dash is nothing more than a fancy looking idiot light. It's terribly innaccurate to reality, as it jumps up to the middle of the range, or what seems like operating temperature, but from what I can recall this morning, it's approx 50degF colder than operating temp.

What we really need is for someone else who has the AGS to be able to take data on a cold morning like I did. Then we would really see the difference.

Hmmmmm, perhaps I will have to go to my local dealer and drive a new one with AGS and watch how it heats up on my scangauge.
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