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Topic Review (Newest First)
Yesterday 09:35 PM
bitzy
Quote:
Originally Posted by FordService View Post
Keep me in the loop with your dealer visit, bitzy. I can take a look at some options. :)



Meagan

I will let you know if you need to intervene.

Thanks again Meagan!
Yesterday 04:05 PM
FordService
Quote:
Originally Posted by bitzy View Post
Sad to say that my car has begun shuddering again. It has been getting worse and worse as the weather is getting warmer. I notice that it really only does it when it gets to operating temperature and the A/C is on.

It will only shudder from 1st to 2nd gear if I am leaving from a dead stop. When this happens I also notice and feel a vibration when it is shifting from 2nd to 3rd gear.

I will be calling Ford again tomorrow to see If I can have them take a look at it again. I am going to ask if I can get a loaner car since last time it was in the shop it took 4 or 5 days (I can't remember exactly).

On the receipt I was given from the dealer it does not say what clutch pack they put in the car, anyway to figure this out from the receipt? I am wondering if they didn't put the revision F clutches in. This time I am going to make sure to tell them to put those in.
Keep me in the loop with your dealer visit, bitzy. I can take a look at some options. :)

Meagan
05-03-2015 10:46 PM
bitzy Sad to say that my car has begun shuddering again. It has been getting worse and worse as the weather is getting warmer. I notice that it really only does it when it gets to operating temperature and the A/C is on.

It will only shudder from 1st to 2nd gear if I am leaving from a dead stop. When this happens I also notice and feel a vibration when it is shifting from 2nd to 3rd gear.

I will be calling Ford again tomorrow to see If I can have them take a look at it again. I am going to ask if I can get a loaner car since last time it was in the shop it took 4 or 5 days (I can't remember exactly).

On the receipt I was given from the dealer it does not say what clutch pack they put in the car, anyway to figure this out from the receipt? I am wondering if they didn't put the revision F clutches in. This time I am going to make sure to tell them to put those in.
05-01-2015 09:22 PM
Downunder
Quote:
Originally Posted by supernova1 View Post
To answer your question about relation between outside factors and DCT behavior: so far I see a strong correlation for DCT behaving in a "more normal" way after I use an external battery charger overnight to top off my car battery. I may read too much into this (placebo effect), but it seems to me that car idles smoother the next morning, and DCT behaves of its best, with smooth crisp shifting at all speeds and no (99.9% of the time) grinding noise.

In one of the threads guys from Thailand reported their observation about DCT misbehaving more often when car battery becomes old and "weak". They even added extra ground wires around engine bay. I did the same and found no sizable improvement after that

But may be there is something in this observation - each gear change event involves gear pre-selection (done by 2 motors in the transmission control module that moves 4 gear forks in the transmission) before the actual shift, and 2 beefy brushless motors working simultaneously - one removes clutch fork pressure from one clutch to disengage it, and another moves the second fork to apply pressure to the second clutch disc to engage it. If for some reason (too much voltage drop from the charge system due to the "weak" battery, for example) they do not spin fast enough, there is a moment when 2 clutches are engaged at the same time- leading to gear grinding.

This theory would even support my observation about grinding noise during car turns - as wheel steering motor leads to an extra load on the charging system during turns, depriving the clutch actuator motors from current they need.

I wish we had a Ford engineer tipping us about possible hardware/software causes of the DCT behavior, as we are just fishing in murky waters and making so many assumptions that may not be true at all...
The "weak battery" and the link to the auto gearbox playing up is in fact something that the mechanics watch out in some of the other cars I have owned. The cars had the "normal" style auto and would rough shift when the battery was not working properly. The mechanics would put in a new battery and the car was back running normal again. The mechanics would say that in modern cars ensuring proper power to the electronics was key to smooth operation as so many things relied on electronics.

Maybe the link to the auto playing up more in summer is the use of things that drain the power like air conditioning?

In one model of car there was a design problem that over a period of driving with lots of things on the battery would drain as the generator could not charge enough.

With the gearbox problems when turning, I wondering if it is something to do with the way the traction control interacts with the gearbox? eg the tyre slips but you don't know it, the traction control drops the power but you want to plant the foot further, electronics rule over foot? DCT in nowhere land, mash, grind, clunk?
05-01-2015 06:08 PM
Arco-Zakus
Quote:
Originally Posted by supernova1 View Post
... I wish we had a Ford engineer tipping us about possible hardware/software causes of the DCT behavior, as we are just fishing in murky waters and making so many assumptions that may not be true at all...
... or may be right on the mark -- those sound like some pretty eductated guesses to me.

I doubt Ford will ever confirm any of them, though. The closest I've ever seen to that was a TSB that described exactly the same corrective action that one focusfanatic had suggested (to stop clunking sound in the front suspension). Of course, he got no credit for his idea from Ford.
05-01-2015 03:49 PM
FordService
Quote:
Originally Posted by edge10 View Post
I get the grinding noise when accelerating normally, I think in 3rd gear, usually at around 20mph. I believe it is worse when the car is warm and have noticed more shuddering on longer trips (my normal commute is only 5 miles one way, these days).

Last time I took it in, I was told it was within specs and the Tech was well aware of the problem, even attributing the grinding to the transmission when I wasn't sure. It has been a few months since then.
I recommend heading back in for an updated diagnosis, edge10. Please let me know when you do , along with your updated mileage.

Meagan
05-01-2015 12:55 PM
edge10 I get the grinding noise when accelerating normally, I think in 3rd gear, usually at around 20mph. I believe it is worse when the car is warm and have noticed more shuddering on longer trips (my normal commute is only 5 miles one way, these days).

Last time I took it in, I was told it was within specs and the Tech was well aware of the problem, even attributing the grinding to the transmission when I wasn't sure. It has been a few months since then.
05-01-2015 08:59 AM
supernova1
Quote:
Originally Posted by unfocused1 View Post
Abnormal grinding noises happen when gears are engaged too early and not timed properly. Anyone in any transmission forum (automatic, manual) will say such noises are wrong. Anyone with a basic understanding of mechanics knows loud, inconsistent grinding under the same set of procedures is not normal.

Does it get worse with heat?

Or during one season as opposed to another (e.g. summer vs winter)

City driving more than highway?

Always the same routes back and forth?

The adaptive learning program being a load of GIGO (or even the cause of the problem) since none of these abnormal loud grind noises started when we first bought the cars, only to happen as time went on...

and so on...


The real question is, since the same transmission was in the Fiesta a year earlier and similar problems were discussed, should the DCT have been put into the Focus at all?
To answer your question about relation between outside factors and DCT behavior: so far I see a strong correlation for DCT behaving in a "more normal" way after I use an external battery charger overnight to top off my car battery. I may read too much into this (placebo effect), but it seems to me that car idles smoother the next morning, and DCT behaves of its best, with smooth crisp shifting at all speeds and no (99.9% of the time) grinding noise.

In one of the threads guys from Thailand reported their observation about DCT misbehaving more often when car battery becomes old and "weak". They even added extra ground wires around engine bay. I did the same and found no sizable improvement after that

But may be there is something in this observation - each gear change event involves gear pre-selection (done by 2 motors in the transmission control module that moves 4 gear forks in the transmission) before the actual shift, and 2 beefy brushless motors working simultaneously - one removes clutch fork pressure from one clutch to disengage it, and another moves the second fork to apply pressure to the second clutch disc to engage it. If for some reason (too much voltage drop from the charge system due to the "weak" battery, for example) they do not spin fast enough, there is a moment when 2 clutches are engaged at the same time- leading to gear grinding.

This theory would even support my observation about grinding noise during car turns - as wheel steering motor leads to an extra load on the charging system during turns, depriving the clutch actuator motors from current they need.

I wish we had a Ford engineer tipping us about possible hardware/software causes of the DCT behavior, as we are just fishing in murky waters and making so many assumptions that may not be true at all...
04-30-2015 06:22 PM
Arco-Zakus
Quote:
Originally Posted by unfocused1 View Post
But with (in effect) two manual transmissions controlled in sync by computer, and the frequency and erratic nature of being in the lower gears, especially in city driving conditions, as opposed to the outer gears (4-6) where - by that point - driving conditions are easily more stable and predictable...
In the DCT used in the Focus the two groups of gears (each associated with one of the two clutches) are divided by odd and even gear numbers, not by lower and higher.
04-30-2015 05:48 PM
FordService
Quote:
Originally Posted by supernova1 View Post
There is so much info in this thread, but I am curious if anybody has a theory about causes of DCT grinding noise it so often produces. Anyone?

My car usually makes the grinding noise when it either turns left (right turn does not do much), or goes on a slight incline.
Have you had a chance to swing past your dealer for a diagnosis, as I mentioned in our PM conversation? Please let me know, along with your updated mileage, and I can see how to best assist.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mr_cassandra View Post
...This can be fixed by Ford, if the dealer gives you the run around, please reach out to Meagan or the other Ford reps here and get your case escalated...
Thanks!

Meagan
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