Focus Fanatics Forum banner

2012 Titanium Front Strut Low Speed Noise (Clunk/Rattle)

645K views 3K replies 293 participants last post by  alex_5161 
#1 ·
My 2012 Titanium has an annoying low speed strut rattle. When it was new it wasn't there. It took a few weeks to materialize. It's only heard at low speeds. While turning or braking it is super noticeable. The service department freely acknowledged the sound was there. I must give them credit for not denying it.
We took the car to the dealer ship, and found nothing "technically" wrong. They greased the front strut bushings and the sounds went away for about two weeks. Yes. It really wasn't there anymore. I was thrilled.
However, it returned at the same exact rate and loudness as when I first bought it.
Now that it's been a couple months the sound is back full and loud.
The sound IS strut related. I know enough about automotive mechanics not to to be fooled by other sounds and noises. Since the grease made the sound go away for a short time the issue is clearly a strut issue.

Does anyone else have this problem?
The solution so far is only very temporary. I'd like to know if others are getting this noise.
Will Ford or the strut manufacturer make right on this? That remains to be seen.
 
See less See more
#1,463 ·
Checked Ford Parts... is this strut mount really only $12? (I feel like they were like... $80 on my Escape - bolts included. lol) I might buy 2 and see if I can get someone at work to machine them? Would someone (with the issue) on here want to volunteer to use them with some replacement M10 bolts? I don't actually have the clunking, so it seems kind of moot for me to put it on my car...

Only thing is that I can't guarantee them fitting through the chassis.
 
#1,464 ·
Yep. Mounts are only 12 bucks, and the bearings are only 8.

Another option would be to go with M9 bolts, though I'm not sure how common those are. What would be the torque limit and strength of an M9 bolt vs the stock M8 and the larger M10?

I'll try to check the size of my bolts and the size of the holes in the strut tower tonight, just see how much room we have to play.

Also, if you're going to head down the route of machining a strut mount to accept larger bolts, I would go with the ST strut mount. It's a bit more robust than the regular Focus mount.

Depending on what happens after more people try the 'fix' this weekend, I'd be willing to give it a shot, Praton. I appreciate the offer.
 
#1,465 ·
Yep. Mounts are only 12 bucks, and the bearings are only 8.
Do the bearings come with (pressed into, I assume) the mounts? I don't see the bearing listed on the ford parts illustration.

Another option would be to go with M9 bolts, though I'm not sure how common those are. What would be the torque limit and strength of an M9 bolt vs the stock M8 and the larger M10?
Good luck ever finding an M9.

HOWEVER... since we're drilling these out anyway, why limit ourselves? You might be able to get a extra fine 3/8" bolt to fit in there!

With grade 8 bolts, it gives us more strength than the M8 but less than the M10 - which might be overkill anyway. I think we're on to something... I just hope bolt stretch is the issue before we start throwing (more) money at the problem. haha
 
#1,466 ·
The bearings are Motorcraft #AD-1094/Ford #CV6Z-18198-A, and separate from the mounts.

The ST strut mounts are Motorcraft #AD-1098.

Personally, I'd rather stay metric, simply out of a desire to maintain uniformity amongst the hardware on the car. Also, I'd like to keep the number of sockets in the tool bag I keep in my car to a minimum.
 
#1,467 ·
The bearings are Motorcraft #AD-1094/Ford #CV6Z-18198-A, and separate from the mounts.

The ST strut mounts are Motorcraft #AD-1098.
Thanks

Personally, I'd rather stay metric, simply out of a desire to maintain uniformity amongst the hardware on the car. Also, I'd like to keep the number of sockets in the tool bag I keep in my car to a minimum.
True, but I don't think we're in a position to be picky... heh. If Ford makes a change on future vehicles, they can use M10. But if a 3/8" bolt fits in the frame and an M10 doesn't, that's our best bet for getting others to try the modification. Plus, it's easier to find extra fine threads for non-metric threads for some reason...
 
#1,468 ·
Unfortunately, I have to come back on and state that my clunk is back as bad as before. I know it wasn't placebo; my car was a lot quieter at the beginning of the week.

I'm going to try and get a decent look around my suspension this weekend. It has gotten bad enough now that I am starting to be able to hear a clunk by simply turning the wheel, without the car even being in motion. To me, that normally signifies tie-rod ends, and I'm really curious as to what some snooping may find. I don't have chassis ears but I do have a stethoscope, and now that I no longer have to be moving to hear something I can try and check it out a little more.

My only concern is whether the initial clunk is possibly causing more premature failure in my front end.

As for torque and bolt stretch, I have to remind (or at least mention) people that if you walk into most automotive shops that you will see the majority of work being done with an impact driver (average guns are rated around 60 ft. lbs). I'm not slandering auto mechanics or Ford, but when the tech came out and hit my wiper arm nut with an impact gun I wanted to lose my mind (hence why I attempted my retorque without taking the arm off, as I'm sure my wiper arm is not permanently affixed to the car). I am truly glad to see that people are not only concerned with figuring out our non-Ford sponsored fix, but the fact that they are doing everything within their means to locate actual tolerances and values in an attempt to keep it from just being a ******* duct-tape fix.
 
#1,469 ·
As for torque and bolt stretch, I have to remind (or at least mention) people that if you walk into most automotive shops that you will see the majority of work being done with an impact driver (average guns are rated around 60 ft. lbs). I'm not slandering auto mechanics or Ford, but when the tech came out and hit my wiper arm nut with an impact gun I wanted to lose my mind (hence why I attempted my retorque without taking the arm off, as I'm sure my wiper arm is not [sic] permanently affixed to the car) .
Tell me about it. I once had someone tell me he used a large cordless impact wrench to put on lugnuts but couldn’t take them off later that day (the battery likely lost power). I was like ARE YOU CRAZY!? THOSE LUGS ARE RATED AT 100FT-LB!
I am truly glad to see that people are not only concerned with figuring out our non-Ford sponsored fix, but the fact that they are doing everything within their means to locate actual tolerances and values in an attempt to keep it from just being a ******* duct-tape fix.
Best part is: I don’t even have the clunk. haha
 
#1,470 ·
Mine seems to have quieted back down a bit with the arrival of temperatures in the mid-40s. It's still there, though, and was getting progressively worse on a long drive I took last Saturday.

I'll run home and grab my calipers after I get out of work, and measure the size of the holes in the strut tower.

My one big question is: Why aren't the STs having this problem? What did they change?
 
#1,471 ·
It's not just the ST's, there are thousands of cars out there that also don't have the clunk. My buddies Ti, outfitted EXACTLY like mine but built I think 30 days later (ok, so Job 2 difference, but identically painted and optioned), does not have the clunk.

What is different, suspension-wise, between my car and his?
 
#1,476 ·
The only cars that seem to have the prob. Normally are the SE handling pack and TI handling pack cars, I know a few S have but almost none
 
#1,480 ·
Gotcha, but looks like majority is Handling package cars, either way, it still needs fixed
 
#1,481 ·
I sent a message to steeda brandon to see maybe they could develop a aftermarket strut topper to replace the crappy stock one, Maybe aluminum piece with sealed bearings I dunno just an Idea, Should as the guy on here with the Grey '12 focus with Coilovers if he has this issue.

If he doesn't that make the most sense to me and Shit I think all of us would upgrade that
 
#1,482 ·
I'll be doing some experimenting today, to further what I found out last night. I originally set out to check the strut mount bolts to make sure that they were still torqued properly, but I also wanted to take a few measurements for reference.

Last week, all 6 strut mounting bolts torqued to 35 ft-lbs. This week, I went to check the torque, and found that two were no longer torqued. After a spin of the torque wrench, I decided to pull them just to check the condition of the bolt. This is what I found:



That's a grade 8.8 M8x1.25x25 bolt on the left, for comparison purposes. Note the stretched threads under the shank on the OEM Ford bolt.

At 35 ft-lbs, these bolts WILL begin to stretch and shear. As of this point, I DO NOT recommend that you torque your bolts to 35 ft-lbs.

Luckily, I work at a dealership, so I was able to dig through the bolt bins and find something that would work, temporarily. I ended up rigging up a spacer setup consisting of a 10mm nut and washer on the 8mm bolt to simulate the spacer on the factory bolts. The spacer on the factory bolt is critical, as it distributes the load onto the strut tower brace. Anything smaller than the OEM washer won't properly distribute the load and the washers will become conical and start to collapse into the hole in the strut tower. Ask me how I know.

So, that being said, I used a 10mm washer and 10mm nut over the 8mm bolt to simulate the OEM spacer, and torqued them to 27 ft-lbs. Since this is only intended to be a temporary setup, I'm going to be replacing these with proper grade 10.9 hardware later today, and I'll also be cutting the heads off of the OEM bolts so I can remove the spacers and drill them out 1mm to fit the non-OEM bolts. For some reason, my shop only had grade 8.8 hardware. (FYI, Metric grade 8.8 = SAE grade 5, and grade 10.9 = SAE grade 8).





Here are the measurements I took for the OEM bolts:
Bolt dia: 8mm (measured 7.78)
Bolt length 35mm
Thread: 1.25
Spacer diameter: 19mm
Spacer thickness: 7mm

I also measured the hole in the strut tower: 9.38mm (i.e., 10mm bolts will not fit)
 
#1,483 ·
So what your saying is Ford is puttin Sub-Par Bolt in our cars and giving us these issues... I HOPE YOU ARE LISTENING FORD.... we need to get them to upgrade all of our cars to the Grade 10.9 ASAP.
 
#1,488 ·
Why are you saying Ford is using sub par bolts? When you exceed the factory torque specs. you are playing with fire, plain and simple.
Nothing wrong with backyard engineering as long as you follow some simple rules.
In the end if there is a fix for this problem it will be something entirely unrelated to the strut mounting bolts.
FYI the Mustang struts are held in place with 8mm studs and nuts, are torqued to 25 foot pounds and do not have issues.
 
#1,485 ·
No, the OEM bolts are 10.9 bolts.

What seems to be the case, is that the torque spec on the strut mount hardware is hyper-critical. A M8x1.25 grade 10.9 bolt has a torque rating of only 22-27 ft-lbs. That is why these are one-time use fasteners - they are designed to be torqued once and only once to 25 ft-lbs. If they are over-torqued, they stretch, which might induce clunking.

If anything, Ford should have gone with a bigger bolt. A M10 grade 10.9 bolt has a much higher torque rating at 45-53 ft-lbs.

Alas, I have no scientific proof just yet. I'll know more later today.
 
#1,487 ·
cool beans, man let us know [thumb], I don't know why thye would go with such a small bolt for a critical area
 
#1,486 ·
Zillon, thanks for all you're doing. I was about to re-torque mine this morning and figured I should check for new developments. Good thing I did. I'm willing to try a fix since it doesn't seem like Ford is doing anything about this. If it's a case of bad/wrong bolts or torque specs then it seems like they aren't looking to hard for a solution or they would have found this by now.

By the way, mine isn't listed as having the handling package.
 
#1,491 ·
Well, I had originally intended to go with grade 10.9 M8x1.25x30 flange bolts, but Lowes' website lies. Instead, I picked up grade 12.9 hex cap head bolts, which have a max torque rating of 33 ft-lbs; this is more in line with my plans, and they should resist shearing better than the OEM bolts.

Additionally I'll be cutting the heads of the OEM bolts off to salvage the spacers, and drilling them out 1mm to fit over the 8mm bolt threads.

I'll keep you guys updated.
 
#1,492 ·
Thanks for being awesome! I'm just happy you found the 12.9 grade bolts. I guess I'll hold off on buying any mounts to play around with.
 
#1,493 ·
Well, preliminary verdict is that this works, and it's safe.

I cut the heads off of the factory bolts to salvage the spacers and drill them out to fit the 12.9 grade bolts.

I ended up using a 5/16" carbide bit, with a second person dripping cutting oil around the bit, to drill them out. The spacers are hardened, so beware. They will take some work to ream out to the right size.



That's the final setup. I torqued them to 35 ft-lbs, and used a bit of anti-seize between the spacer and the bolt, to inhibit corrosion. I did not use anti-seize on the threads.

The only issue I seem to have is a little bit of groaning from the left front, but I think it's because I need to re-align the struts in the towers, which I'll do at work tomorrow.
 
#1,494 ·
Well, preliminary verdict is that this works, and it's safe.

I cut the heads off of the factory bolts to salvage the spacers and drill them out to fit the 12.9 grade bolts.

I ended up using a 5/16" carbide bit, with a second person dripping cutting oil around the bit, to drill them out. The spacers are hardened, so beware. They will take some work to ream out to the right size.



That's the final setup. I torqued them to 35 ft-lbs, and used a bit of anti-seize between the spacer and the bolt, to inhibit corrosion. I did not use anti-seize on the threads.

The only issue I seem to have is a little bit of groaning, but I think it's because I need to re-align the struts in the towers, which I'll do at work tomorrow.
Cool man, keep up informed.[thumb][thumb]
 
#1,496 ·
Well, I did some more tweaking last night in the shop - I replaced the 30mm bolts with 25mm bolts of the same grade, since there was a lot of excess bolt showing underneath the strut mount when I took a peek from below. I wanted to ensure that there would be no possible interference between the bolts and the strut bearing. I also realigned the struts in the tower.

Additionally, I bumped the torque spec to from 35 ft-lbs to 37 ft-lbs. This is my final torque revision; now I'll put some miles on the car and see how the setup holds up.

For now, I'd say this is a success. It may take a small bit of work to salvage the stock bolt spacers from the factory bolts, but if this holds up and keeps the clunking at bay, I'd say it's well worth the work.

The weather has also gotten much colder in the past few days, so I'm hoping that doesn't have much to do with my suspension being quieter. Regardless, I'll be sure to keep you guys updated on any developments.
 
#1,497 ·
Some people have heard it more in cold weather, and some in warm weather, I normally hear it all the time no matter the weather lol
 
#1,510 ·
MS3 konis will work in the front, but will raise ride height in the front due to dimensional differences. The ST struts are somewhat of a stopgap effort on my part until Koni releases MK3-specific front struts for our cars. The ST struts aren't very expensive.

To answer your question, though, the ST struts in the front w/Pro Kit springs, Steeda RSB, and Konis in the rear at 50% feels very balanced.
 
#1,512 ·
Another possibility is the exhaust heat shield hitting the crossmember! Had the same noise and the dealership re-positioned it away from crossmember and noise went away but is back now 2 days later! It went away for sure and the car actually seemed tighter and breand new for 2 days which is weird because its only a heat shield! Will have them look again and move it and see what happens!
 
#1,514 ·
Gonna be swappin bolts like Zillion tonight and seeing how that works, Have new strut tops and bearings as well if the bolts and re aligning the struts doesnt solve the issue.

I had a theroy that torqueing to the higher numbers might be crushing the bearigs and casuing the creaking so Im gonna torque the better bolts to stock numbers and see if that helps if not try out Zillions 35-37 Ftlbs torque specs.

FINGERS CROSSED
 
#1,518 ·
Well I upgraded and Swapped all the strut bolts and Just torqued them to 35 ftlbs and It didn't make the creaking go away :( the never ending quest to fix this damn issue.

I just used 6 washers under the bolts I used to make it the same height as the stock bolt.
I totally spaced and didn't try this set up with stock Torque, Im kinda over it but I really hope ford fixes this some how.

I really think Steeda or some company could make a better strut topper with a sealed bearing and it solve this issue and WED ALL buy that in a heartbeat. For now I turn the radio up a little louder so I don't notice it.


Untitled by theshrewz, on Flickr

Untitled by theshrewz, on Flickr


I got My Steeda CAI and short throw and my ST wing in today so I installed the CAI to make me feel better ahha.

Untitled by theshrewz, on Flickr

It looks red cause I oiled it with the K&N Oil my dad had left over from his filter he has on his Mustang
 
#1,519 ·
I just found this.

TSB: 02-11-04
2010-2012 MAZDASPEED3 - SQUEAK OR KNOCK NOISE FROM FRONT STABILIZER
APPLICABLE MODEL(S)/VINS
2010-2012 Mazdaspeed3

DESCRIPTION
Some vehicles may exhibit a squeak or knock noise from the front end of the vehicle when passing over a bump. This is caused by dust entering between the stabilizer bar and stabilizer bushing and damaging the coating applied to the bushing, resulting in excessive clearance.
To stop the noise, the left and right front stabilizer bushings are replaced with new ones and dust covers with bands are installed.

2010 Mazda 3
TSB: 02-10-05
2010 MAZDA3 - KNOCK / CLUNK NOISE FROM FRONT WHEN GOING OVER BUMPS
APPLICABLE MODEL(S)/VINS
2010 Mazda3 vehicles with VINs lower than JM1BL[:)][:)][:)][:)][:)][:)][:)][:)][:)][:)][:)][:)]336667 (produced before June 1, 2010)

DESCRIPTION
Some vehicles may experience a knock / clunk noise from the front of the vehicle when going over bumps. Typically the noise occurs at the right front of the vehicle with only the right front tire. Due to the impact while going over bumps, a vertical force is applied to the crossmember through the stabilizer which causes crossmember movement on the bushing. This movement is caused by the change of the surface characteristics of the bushing during hot ambient temperatures in summer. Less holding force during cold temperatures results in movement and stick-slip noise at the bushing (A) near the front (F) of the front crossmember. The bushing is now modified to reduce the movement.

NOTE: This concern is best duplicated with cold ambient temperatures below 12.8 degrees C (55 degrees F). Once the vehicle has warmed up, the concern may be difficult to duplicate.

2007 - notes this
MTOL -07/06
MAZDA3, MAZDASPEED3, MAZDA5, MAZDA6-“POP!” NOISE FROM COWL OVER BUMPS
Concern:
Some customers may complain of a ‘POP!’ noise that is heard in the front of the vehicle, particularly when going over large bumps. The noise comes from the under the hood in the upper front strut tower area, and can easily be mistaken for a front suspension noise. Upon further investigation, the front suspension components are not the cause of the noise.

Contact and movement between the cowl panel and the vehicle body may be the cause of the noise and the mounting bolts for the cowl panel need to be re- torqued .
Veddy interesting.
 
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top