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The Competition

6K views 46 replies 20 participants last post by  JeremyT 
#1 ·
Well, at least in my opinion the Mazda3 the only competition!

The original reason I went with my Focus is that I could get a manual transmission and sunroof combo (in 2012 could not get Mazda Skyactiv manual with sunroof). Then I fell in love with my Focus way more than I expected (thought it would be a good car, but turned out to be a great car).

Now that I need to buy a new car, I'm torn between the 2013 Mazda3 and 2013 Focus. I'm between:
  • Focus SE w/ Winter Pack and Moonroof
  • SE w/ 201A, Winter Pack, and Moonroof
  • Mazda3 iGrand Touring (standard with heated seats, moonroof, voice activation similar to sync, etc)

With the SE I lose rear disc brakes (much debated, mainly want them for servicing myself, especially with how important the e-brake is with a manual), but I get all the creature comforts like heated seats (winter pack), blind spot mirrors, cheaper price, fold flat seats, etc. This is the cheapest of the options by about $2k.

The SE with 201A is virtually the same as the Mazda3 I'm looking at (both have leather, rear disc, etc etc), but the Mazda gives me a few extras like upgraded Bose sound (I would not be getting the MFT/Sony pack on the Focus), Mazda suspension/driving dynamics/steering feel, in-dash Nav (a feature I would probably never use), and probably 1-2MPG better.

BUT the Mazda dealerships where I live really don't want to negotiate price, so with the current Focus rebates, etc, the SE 201A is at least $3k cheaper (assuming I get lucky and can negotiate ~1000 off a Mazda).

Am I crazy for not being able to decide which one? 3k buys a lot of suspension/speaker/etc upgrades, but I don't think I can upgrade the steering feel (the Focus has good feel, but the Mazda is still better). Am I crazy? It just seems so hard to choose since they are virtually the same car...

P.S. Yes, I expect all of you to recommend the Focus because this is a Focus forum. [burnout]
 
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#4 ·
Yeah, 2 Mazda dealerships confirmed the 2013 Grand's will have the manual as an option.

And I did try out the ST (with ST2 package). It's a wonderful car and drove amazing, but ultimately I don't need the performance, don't want to deal with the full size spare in the hatch (seats don't fold flat), and don't want to deal with the extra price (with winter wheels, the options I'd want, etc it gets expensive faster than the ST can accelerate to 60!).
 
#6 ·
The other thing I should mention, is the Mazda's probably won't be hitting the US until late October. The current $2000 rebate on the SE's ends October 1st. So with the off chance that the Mazda dealerships lied just to try to get me to come in, if I wait too long I lose out on a great deal on a Focus.
 
#8 ·
I would say I generally agree with you. My girlfriend has a 2010 Mazda3 and I would say my Focus was loads quieter. I kind of like the more "sporty" feel of the Mazda suspension as it crashed over bumps a bit more. Then again, the Focus' suspension on the highway felt a LOT better.

Off topic: yay the quote button works again! Not sure why my browser was stupid the last couple times I replied!
 
#9 ·
Both are great choices. The SkyActiv and 6-speed + agility + economy make the 3 very attractive. The latest subtle restyling has made the styling liveable (not so smiley).

The Focus is very nice...a Titanium 6-speed can probably be had for a bit over $20k (for a sedan, I think), so it is a great value. The Focus gets great mileage, too (last check for me was 38mpg for a 5-spd w/o Kysor shutters).

As far as drum vs. disc brakes...I wouldn't get hung-up re: servicing. In fact, I think you will have to service the disc brakes much more often. Drums last forever and, on the '12 Focus, braking is very good with both all-disc and disc/drum. I didn't notice a dramatic difference between them.
 
#10 ·
I should probably have specified earlier... I will be going with the Focus 5-speed (again) if I get another one. I just find driving manual so much more enjoyable, so whatever new car I get, it'll be a manual!

Also I'll be going hatch as I want the extra space for hauling my crap around! [histerical]

You do make a good point about the brakes; I probably won't ever have to service drums. I guess I'm just paranoid that the e-brake will fail and I absolutely hate having to deal with drums (I've done it before).
Of course, rear discs will potentially make the car easier to sell down the road. And the last thing is I'm a "young kid" so I want the "bling" of discs in the back! [:p]
 
#11 ·
Well, at least in my opinion the Mazda3 the only competition!

The original reason I went with my Focus is that I could get a manual transmission and sunroof combo (in 2012 could not get Mazda Skyactiv manual with sunroof). Then I fell in love with my Focus way more than I expected (thought it would be a good car, but turned out to be a great car).

Now that I need to buy a new car, I'm torn between...

* Snip

The SE with 201A is virtually the same as the Mazda3 I'm looking at (both have leather, rear disc, etc etc), but the Mazda gives me a few extras like upgraded Bose sound (I would not be getting the MFT/Sony pack on the Focus), Mazda suspension/driving dynamics/steering feel, in-dash Nav (a feature I would probably never use), and probably 1-2MPG better.

BUT the Mazda dealerships where I live really don't want to negotiate price, so with the current Focus rebates, etc, the SE 201A is at least $3k cheaper [/B](assuming I get lucky and can negotiate ~1000 off a Mazda).

Am I crazy for not being able to decide which one? 3k buys a lot of suspension/speaker/etc upgrades, but I don't think I can upgrade the steering feel (the Focus has good feel, but the Mazda is still better). Am I crazy? It just seems so hard to choose since they are virtually the same car...

P.S. Yes, I expect all of you to recommend the Focus because this is a Focus forum. [burnout]


Well, this is all a lot of information to digest. However, having just completed my anal shopping methodology I will, of course, muddy the water a little more for you...

First, if the Mazda is truly $3k more than the SE with the Apearance Package if and only if you can negotiate down on the Mazda 3, then there is a bit of risk there...just financial risk not something serious. This is a good thing to figure out here in the armchair BEFORE you go look at the shiny stuff.

So, within the range of $3k - $4k more than an SE with the 201A you can get:
- Titanuim 5spd loaded with remote start, moonroof, sony, nav, and PEPS (Edit: no, remote start is not available on 5 spd, sorry)
- ST base with moonroof
- Escape S or base SE
- Mustang V6 Coupe

My point is 3-4k is a lot of buying power and usually puts you up one in vehicle rank. That is a lot of money for something everyone seems to agree is not as nice a driving car.

Run the configurator again at Ford.com and see what options you can get on the Titanium and you would be able to get the 'touring' suspension, the 4-wheel disc, power seat, leather, Sony sound, RVC, PEPS, 17" wheels, etc. all as base. Then you can possibly add self park, moonroof, NAV, or 18" touring suspension. $3-$4 is a lot of options and I think you may end up even or still less than the Mazda 3 (not sure, just guessing)...
 
#14 ·
*snip*

So, within the range of $3k - $4k more than an SE with the 201A you can get:
- Titanuim 5spd loaded with remote start, moonroof, sony, nav, and PEPS (Edit: no, remote start is not available on 5 spd, sorry)
- ST base with moonroof
- Escape S or base SE
- Mustang V6 Coupe

My point is 3-4k is a lot of buying power and usually puts you up one in vehicle rank. That is a lot of money for something everyone seems to agree is not as nice a driving car.

Run the configurator again at Ford.com and see what options you can get on the Titanium and you would be able to get the 'touring' suspension, the 4-wheel disc, power seat, leather, Sony sound, RVC, PEPS, 17" wheels, etc. all as base. Then you can possibly add self park, moonroof, NAV, or 18" touring suspension. $3-$4 is a lot of options and I think you may end up even or still less than the Mazda 3 (not sure, just guessing)...
I suppose a base ST is an option, but like I said before, the back seats not folding flat would annoy me... not to mention how much my insurance would increase, winter wheels/tires, etc etc.
As far as the other options you listed, I never really considered that, but ultimately I think the compact hatch is the segment for me. A mustang would be fun, but I'm not sure I could deal with the "lack of space" compared to a Focus/Mazda3.

And unless I'm doing something wrong, the Titanium jumps to 26k with just Blue Candy and a moonroof. Not sure I want MFT and all the other extras. Not even sure what RVC or PEPS is!
I believe the SE w/ 201A gets you the touring suspension, leather (honestly don't really want leather, but at least it's fake), rear discs, fog lights (very useful when driving home to visit the folks), perimeter alarm, power driver seat (don't care because I'll set my seat once and be done). That is essentially most of a Ti without the MFT and other stuff I don't care about?
 
#12 ·
I was in your position about 6 months ago and bought the Focus for about $3K less just because it was less money and Ford supposedly had gotten it's act together. Looking back on it ... I think I would go the other way if I had it to do again. I like the Focus, but I'm used to Toyota reliabilty ... and so far the Focus leaves a lot to be desired. Issues with the suspension, issues with MFT, issues with the DCT ... and general reliability issues have combined to yield absolutely horrendous value losses.

My Focus has been in the shop more in the first 5000 miles than my last 3 Toyotas were in 280,000 miles combined. Thank God I bought a basic Focus at the bottom of the price scale. At least I won't get hammered that bad if I dump it. I was hoping that Ford had gotten their stuff together .... but it turns out they haven't ... at least if you look at my car they haven't. It absolutely astounds me that the Ford suspension engineers can't fix a simple klunk in the suspension in a year's time.

It's really a shame that this car has so many issues, because it really is a nice handling and ecoomical little car. All the issues really detract from the fun of owning it.

If you don't mind driving a few hours ... Young Mazda in Easton PA has blowout pricing on their Mazdas ... well over 50 both with and without Skyactive. $16.3K without and $17.2K with Skyactiv.

REV
 
#15 ·
...My Focus has been in the shop more in the first 5000 miles than my last 3 Toyotas were in 280,000 miles combined. Thank God I bought a basic Focus at the bottom of the price scale. At least I won't get hammered that bad if I dump it. I was hoping that Ford had gotten their stuff together .... but it turns out they haven't ... at least if you look at my car they haven't. It absolutely astounds me that the Ford suspension engineers can't fix a simple klunk in the suspension in a year's time...
Hi revhigh,

I want to step in here and see how I can help. I'm happy to get you escalated to your regional Customer Service Manager; just send me a PM with your VIN, estimated mileage, preferred servicing dealer, and daytime phone number.

I hope to hear from you soon,
-Crystal [wave]
 
#13 ·
I'' sit the fence on this one.
I have a bit of a skyactiv hard on. I'm cross shopping a mazda cx5 with an escape for the wife. however, 3k is alot of cash.

If you want reliability like an old toyota. buy an old toyota. if you want cool cutting edge technology, get a focus or mazda. not a boring new corrola still offered with a 4 spd slushbox.

i think both will be a great choice.
 
#17 ·
Hi Crystal !

Thanks for the offer, but my dealership has been very good so far. I'm still working patiently with them and have always had a great relationship with them. They're also my Toyota dealer, so I've known them for many, many years. I think they're bumping my suspension issue up the ladder by themselves.

It's not so much that I think they're not going to fix the issue, it's just a pain that I have the issue at all. First I have to take it in to let them hear it ... then they have to order the parts, which took a month or so ... then they had the car for two days to install the parts ... then I had to take it back for them to hear the noise that has returned ... now they're escalating it up to Ford ... then I'll have to take in again to be re-diagnosed ... then they'll have to order parts .... then they'll need the car for 2 more days .... etc, etc.

I know that's the only way to get it resolved, but it's just a pain to constantly have to go back and forth, especially when Ford knows damn well the problem isn't fixed by that TSB. Why don't they just FIX it ?? THey HAVE to know what the cause is, and putting different but the same parts in time and again isn't going to change the outcome. Somewhere there is a part with a bad design.

If it turns out that things stall at my dealership I'll let you know, but as of now, things are progressing ... albeit slowly. My wife drives the car on a daily basis, and it doesn't bother her ... she just turns up the radio. I drive my Toyota, which is at 37K miles without a hickup.

REV
 
#27 ·
Hi Crystal !

Thanks for the offer, but my dealership has been very good so far. I'm still working patiently with them and have always had a great relationship with them...I know that's the only way to get it resolved, but it's just a pain to constantly have to go back and forth, especially when Ford knows damn well the problem isn't fixed by that TSB. Why don't they just FIX it ?? THey HAVE to know what the cause is, and putting different but the same parts in time and again isn't going to change the outcome...
Hi revhigh!

I can assure you that Ford engineers are hard at work on a solution. One of the reasons I escalate cases is to get more information in their hands.

Let me know how things go at your dealership. I'm more than happy to step in whenever you need me.

Thanks!
Crystal [wave]
 
#28 ·
Darn it! I was really hoping it was synthetic leather. A quick search of Mazda points to them using real leather too. Now I'm not sure what car I want. Ford would have had my money already if leather stayed a stand-alone option. [bigcry]
 
#31 ·
This is probably a really dumb thought, but is it possible to replace the ST's full size spare with a donut and smaller foam so the seats fold flat? Or is that a safety issue?
 
#32 ·
Theoretically it can be done, but its not necessarily a great idea as not only is it a temporary duty tire, the largest compact spare is still only about 4-4.5" wide vs the 7-8"+ of the standard 18" wheels (iirc they are 18"x8") so the load rating for the temporary spare might cause an issue (perhaps not, but its best to err on the side of caution). I definitely wouldn't recommend it on the driven axle especially as that could also cause uneven wear on the axles and cv joints for the duration that they are installed as the height and weight are so far from that of the normal wheel and tire combination. Although to be fair I wouldn't recommend that on even the regular Focus with its 15-18" wheels for the same reasons.

It would be better than removing the spare wheel all together and only having an inflator or a can of tire sealing compound that will be useless if the side wall is gone or if there is a large enough hole in the tire. Nevermind the fact that it is allegedly a pain in the neck to clean that garbage out of the wheel, and it may even damage the TPMS sensor, but that I don't know.
 
#37 ·
Hmmm...with everything I have read...why not consider getting a leftover Job2 2012? That gives you rear discs on the SE sport and well as a ton other options they did away with for 13. You could probably even get a leftover Titainium for what a 13 SE goes for.

Just a thought. That's the route I'd go. There's nothing I've seen on a 13 that would make me not look for a leftover 12 first for way less money.
 
#39 ·
My focus was totaled a couple of months ago, I chose to go with the Mazda and I've been very happy with my decision so far. After doing a ton of research on both cars I just was not too thrilled with the issues Ford has been having with the latest Focus and while I enjoyed my previous Focus, it certainly was not without issues. I drive a lot and already have almost 15k on the Mazda with zero issues. Drive both for a decent amount of time before you decide, they both have their strengths and weaknesses, personally I liked the suspension/steering in the Mazda much better but I will give the nod to the Focus in the looks department.

Good luck with your decision.
 
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