Focus Fanatics Forum banner

My Oil Change Interval Debate Rant

97K views 484 replies 101 participants last post by  rebelx 
#1 ·
Okay, here is my opinion on the whole oil change issue:

Despite what the manufactures tell you, and the internet, and magazines, etc. Get a good quality oil and change it often. Clean oil protects your engine. PERIOD.

If you are using a conventional oil or semi-synthetic why not use the age old 3000mi interval? The stuff is cheap! I hear all of this debate on the internet, in articles, etc. about using your oil longer, but we spend more on a tank of gas each week than on an oil change! Think about it. Why are people so desperate to extend their intervals when we go though gas like crazy (but that is okay [well, except for the price gouging])?

A freaking cartridge of printer ink costs more than an oil change!!!!

I use synthetic oil in everything. If the car has a decent oil capacity (like the Focus) for its engine size, use, and output then I change it every 5000mi and use a good quality filter (Motorcraft or Mobil-1). If the capacity is low (like my wife's Protege 5 at 3.7 quarts) I change it just like conventional oil (3000mi).

If it is a high performance vehicle that is driven often (like my old Lightning and MS3), I change the synthetic at 3000mi.

It is cheap insurance. We are not killing ourselves financially by doing so. Your car will last longer as well.

Even the "saving the environment" argument is silly...oil can be recycled!

I am not ranting at you, but just in general. I see this debate all the time, and I just don't understand it. I'm as poor as the next guy, but I have no problem spending money on oil. I see it as insurance against bigger repair bills down the road.
 
See less See more
#277 ·
Has anyone sent out their oil to get analyzed at the 10,000 mile mark yet? I couldn't find it in this thread (I'm on my phone so its a little more challenging.)
 
#280 ·
Just be patient, I am currently at 5,000 miles on this oil change interval with Amsoil Signature Series 5W-20. Soon there will be a UOA thread to compare all results.

Yes, I did. Nothing unexpected. Rolling up on my second oil change, short of 20K this week. I'll also get that sent out.

When I get home (and if I remember), I can post more info.
You must send me a PM when you get it. I want to see it.
 
#279 ·
I am just rolled over 18k. This is my third oil change. I will probably get an oil analysis done and post the results when I get them. See if I can get any more mileage out of my Amsoil.
 
#281 ·
Oil consumption question

Hi all,

2012 SE Sport 5-spd here. I got my first oil change at close to 10k miles in July. What with one thing and another, I didn't really monitor oil consumption until this past weekend (16k miles). To my horror, I didn't see anything on the dipstick at all, and it took 1.5 quarts of oil to bring it back up to max. I did check the oil level after the change at the dealership, and it was max, so I know that it started with a "full tank".

Has anyone else monitored the oil consumption? I'm more than a bit surprised to see this kind of consumption in what is essentially a brand-new car. I drive ~80 miles every day, and it's about half highway and half city. Don't really push the car around too much except for taking turns a bit aggressively [hihi]

Any thoughts/comments?

Thanks
 
#285 ·
Hi all,

2012 SE Sport 5-spd here. I got my first oil change at close to 10k miles in July. What with one thing and another, I didn't really monitor oil consumption until this past weekend (16k miles). To my horror, I didn't see anything on the dipstick at all, and it took 1.5 quarts of oil to bring it back up to max. I did check the oil level after the change at the dealership, and it was max, so I know that it started with a "full tank".

Has anyone else monitored the oil consumption? I'm more than a bit surprised to see this kind of consumption in what is essentially a brand-new car. I drive ~80 miles every day, and it's about half highway and half city. Don't really push the car around too much except for taking turns a bit aggressively [hihi]

Any thoughts/comments?

Thanks
Oil consumption in mine is very modest, maybe 1/8 -1/4 quart in the 4,500 miles so far on this oil change. But a quart every 4,000 miles is really not that
bad and is probably within the range of what most experience.

Did you notice any consumption during the first 10,000 mile OCI? It would be unusual for consumption to increase after the first oil change unless driving conditions or oil type changed a lot. The car came filled with Motorcraft semi-synthetic - are you sure that's what was used for the first change or does the dealer use a bulk, conventional oil?

Guess all you can do is watch it and see how it progresses. I've found oil level on these cars to be pretty sensitive to temperature, position and time so try to check under the same conditions each time to get the truest reading.
 
#282 ·
Regardless of type of oil, CONSUMPTION usually starts taking place from 5000 miles on up. That is why people that go for lengthy OCI's usually have to do some top-offs during the period between 5000 - 10,000 mile mark you were going for. That might be as little as 1/2 of a quart or maybe even up to a quart.

Of course you will get many opinions on the subject here :)
 
#283 ·
I do 4 months or 5k miles, whichever occurs first. I actually use Mobil 1 so I could theoretically go 10k was they suggest in the manual, but to be safe, I like to do it at 5k. 3k on synthetic oil to me is a waste (except for maybe if I was constantly running in extreme cold or extreme heat--over 100 constantly, but in Northern Illinois, it's warm part of the year, and colder the other part--so the 5k/4 months works fine for me. Been doing that since my first new car, which was my 2008 Focus.

In an absolute pinch, I'd go up to 6 months or 7.5k as long as I was still using Mobil 1... anything else and I'd say no. but even then so, I think oils (even synthetics) still start to break-down after about 5k miles anyways from being run through the engine. I never trust the 15k oils that claim you can go 15k between oil changes... I just don't trust or believe them (nor would I ever go that long between oil changes--even with an old beater car I wouldn't).
 
#284 ·
That's because you believe what the big oil companies are telling you. Too many people have the "oil change OCD" thanks to big oil company brainwashing. "Change your oil....we need to make more money.....change your oil."

Amsoil Signature Series lubricants will easily achieve 15,000 mile oil change intervals, as this is the severe service schedule for the formulation. Trust them or not, there is proof it's real. I have proven it many times with used oil analysis. A fill of Amsoil SS 10W-30 in my 700 rwhp GT500 after 7,000 miles had not sheared at all (no break down of film strength) and still had more than 50% of detergent additives remaining. There is a difference between the "fake" hydrocracked (highly refined) petroleum that Mobil 1 is using, and the 100% true synthetic base stock that Amsoil is using.

I'm about to take a sample of my current fill of Amsoil @ 5,000 miles (not changing the oil). When I post the sample on here, you will see what I mean. Dumping the oil at 5,000 miles is a waste.
 
#286 ·
Does everyone here know that using a superior formulation that has a lower NOACK Volatility (evaporation/burn off) will result in less oil consumption? For instance....

Motorcraft 5W-20 has a NOACK of 13+%

Amsoil Signature Series 5W-20 has a NOACK of 5.7%

With a NOACK less than half, you will have far less lubricant losses.
 
#288 ·
Tracking. That explains why after 7,000 miles, I checked my oil level and my car only consumed 1/4 of a quart of oil. I just changed my oil yesterday at 10,500 miles. I had Amsoil Signature Series 5W-20 oil in it with a Amsoil filter, I put Amsoil Signature Series 5W-20 oil back in it with Amsoil filter. I going to send off a sample for oil analysis. I am curious as to how much life I had left out of the old oil.
 
#296 ·
I agree that the speculation possibly has some merit...

It won't be too long before I will be able to post a Blackstone analysis of PU. OCI will be in the 8-10K mile range.
 
#298 ·
Okay, here is my opinion on the whole oil change issue:

Despite what the manufactures tell you, and the internet, and magazines, etc. Get a good quality oil and change it often. Clean oil protects your engine. PERIOD.
True.

So why were the figures changed?

"Peak oil" or is that a myth? (One could also say an engine worn out sooner by dirty oil would help the auto industry up due to more people purchasing new/replacement cars...)

If you are using a conventional oil or semi-synthetic why not use the age old 3000mi interval? The stuff is cheap! I hear all of this debate on the internet, in articles, etc. about using your oil longer, but we spend more on a tank of gas each week than on an oil change! Think about it. Why are people so desperate to extend their intervals when we go though gas like crazy (but that is okay [well, except for the price gouging])?
Anything to reduce usage is not a bad thing. Which is another reason to give ethanol the boot...

A freaking cartridge of printer ink costs more than an oil change!!!!
The home printer manufacturers sell the main units at a loss. The profit is made up for in the ink cartridges, whose microchips prevent third party brands from being used...

I use synthetic oil in everything. If the car has a decent oil capacity (like the Focus) for its engine size, use, and output then I change it every 5000mi and use a good quality filter (Motorcraft or Mobil-1). If the capacity is low (like my wife's Protege 5 at 3.7 quarts) I change it just like conventional oil (3000mi).

If it is a high performance vehicle that is driven often (like my old Lightning and MS3), I change the synthetic at 3000mi.

It is cheap insurance. We are not killing ourselves financially by doing so. Your car will last longer as well.

Even the "saving the environment" argument is silly...oil can be recycled!
A longer lasting car doesn't hurt either, thinking of all the junkyards where old cars go away to rust to dust...

I'd no idea oil can be recycled, but if it can be cleaned and re-used... or made into plastic...
 
#302 ·
As a Newbie, this thread has been one of the most informative for me yet, first referred to by UnleashedBeast; for newbie questions on oil and oiling.

Why is this not a Sticky?

You would not believe the hours I have spent on this Forum looking for 'This' thread.
 
#304 ·
This is merely an anecdote, but to weigh in on the more-is-not-necessarily better side of the debate:

My last car was an '01 Cougar with the 2.5L Duratec V6. I relied on the dash light for oil change timing. For that car, that meant oil changes in the 4,500-5,000 mi. range. After the first year or two, I stopped doing my own oil changes and let Jiffy Lube change the oil for me. I always bought the cheapest 5W20 on Jiffy Lube's menu.

After 11+ years, I sold the car to my brother (for $1) with 248,500 mi. on the odo. He's still driving it and is at a bit over 251,000 miles. The car does have some issues (A/C hasn't worked for years, synchros almost gone in 3rd gear, sway bars should probably be replaced). But there are no issues with the engine. It uses about 1.5 quarts between oil changes, but there is a slow oil leak which probably accounts for most of that. MPGs are identical to what they were when the car was new: 23-26 mpg in mixed city/highway driving. No blue smoke. No valve noise. Purrs like a kitten.

I'm not qualified to offer a definite explanation for the engine's longevity, but compared to motoring a few decades ago, manufacturing tolerances are tighter, engine management is more precise, fuels are cleaner, etc.

Is it possible to get long life out of an engine without seeking the best possible oils and changing religiously at 3,000 mi.? Yes, it is definitely possible, because i have done so.
 
#305 ·
Here's a question. I just bought a 2012 Ford Focus Titanium (brand new) that had 93 miles on it when I purchased it. I bought the car a week ago (April, 2013) but it had a build date of September, 2011. My included Ford service package (2 yrs/25,000) won't cover the oil change until 5,000 miles but that interval won't pop up for me until probably November/December. Should I change my oil now under the assumption that it's been sitting for over a year and a half or...
 
#312 ·
In the oil debate people are always saying things like “I changed oil on my 1995 XYZ every 3000 miles and after 285,000 miles the engine was still running fine”, but nobody has ever said “I changed oil every 10,000 miles and the engine wore out at 120,000 miles”. In fact, I’ve never seen any evidence whatsoever, not even an anecdote, that changing oil at the manufacturer’s recommended interval ever caused an engine to wear out before the rest of the car did.

The 1996 Consumer Reports New York taxi oil study is the most comprehensive oil change study ever done, testing 75 cabs in the most severe driving conditions over 60,000 miles. They found no difference in measured internal engine wear, sludge or varnish between 3000, 6000, or even 12,000 mile oil change intervals, and no difference between different brands of oil or even between conventional and synthetic oils. CR recommends a 7500 mile interval unless the manufacturer states otherwise.

As to those still clinging to a 3000 interval, since you have no evidence to justify that interval then why not a 2000, or even a 1000 mile interval? You might as well recommend having a dashboard Jesus to ward off car repairs.
 
#314 ·
You're dead on. Even better, just use the gauge that the car manufacturer put in your car, that keeps track of RPMs, time, miles,etc and tells you when it wants an oil change?

To people who think they need 3K, there have been a lot of advances in precision machining, materials, design, etc that just make that a silly waste of time and money.

My dealership has a lifetime warranty on my car's engine if i get the oil changed there (which is free). They certainly don't think the engine will wear out because they will replace it if it does. The rest of the car will be dead long before that.

So waste your money and time if you want, i'll just go by what the car's meter says and trust the people who built it.
 
#313 ·
I did change my oil on my Montero after 2000 miles after I pulled a trailer for 1500 miles of that. Granted that was an older vehicle with 80k miles at the time.

As per the focus, this is what the oil looks like at a little more than 500 miles, hard to know but I guess it could use a change, doesn't look particularly clean to me.
 
#317 ·
Amsoil did the same Las Vegas Taxi study. Mobeeeellll 1 can't come close to the longevity of Amsoil Signature Series.

Also, when you leave a lubricant in a cars engine (that is new...not driven), over time....the base stock will oxidize causing the viscosity to increase. This is why oil has a time and mileage interval. True synthetic base stock oxidize much slower than cheaper base stocks.
 
#322 ·
Also, when you leave a lubricant in a cars engine (that is new...not driven), over time....the base stock will oxidize causing the viscosity to increase. This is why oil has a time and mileage interval. True synthetic base stock oxidize much slower than cheaper base stocks.
I would really like some facts about the "Year" oil change. What, specifically, happens to oil that sits for a year in a crankcase whether driven or not that causes it to become bad? Does this also apply to an opened container and if so, why? - Oxidation? - Gear oils last the lifetime of the fill and they are in gear boxes that breath so I don't really understand this one year thing at all.
 
#319 ·
I run a mobile one extended performance filter and ams 5-20 extended performance stuff good for10k I currently change the oil once at 3500 when I first got it and I did my second at 10k oil looked pretty clean still. My next check is in 200 mile because I check it every1000 miles and ill be changing it in another5-6k at about 7.5-8k intervals.
 
#321 ·
Hmm.... There is definitely some great info in this thread. From what I have read, Amsoil is the way to go. It comes out to about the same price a year as Mobil 1 because you only need to do one change instead of two. Cheaper probably if you buy a few years worth of filters and oil from Amsoil in one shot. Still looking forward to the UOA from UB. Any ETA on the UOA?

Also, if oil is sitting in the bottle, unused for a few years, does it go bad?
 
#324 ·
Amsoil is cheaper in the long run because you will change your oil less. Buying it in bulk as a preferred customer is a great idea and will not go bad on the shelf. Blackstone tested virgin oils that were 20+ years old....and were still able to be used. Did I mention this oil was in the old round cardboard type quarts with metal end caps.

Here is my last UOA with Amsoil Signature Series 5W-20 at 10,000 miles. Heck, it still has at least 10,000 more miles (total of 20,000) left in it. I will only have to change my oil and filters every 2 years at ~20,000 to 25,000 miles with the bypass system installed.



I would really like some facts about the "Year" oil change. What, specifically, happens to oil that sits for a year in a crankcase whether driven or not that causes it to become bad? Does this also apply to an opened container and if so, why? - Oxidation? - Gear oils last the lifetime of the fill and they are in gear boxes that breath so I don't really understand this one year thing at all.
Low mileage use lubricants can easily stay in the sump for two years. I bought a 2009 GT500 that was 18+ months old with the same OEM oil fill. It had 745 miles on the car and then I put 500 miles on it to drive home. Kept the OEM fill in it till 1,500 miles. I should have tested it, but I bet the fill of Motorcraft 5W-50 was heavily oxidized.

Gear oil have extreme pressure modifiers and other additives that make the base stock super resistive to oxidation. Additives that you would not desire in an engine lubricant.

I think if the oil was changed and the car wasn't driven at all, it would be ok past a year but because the car may have been driven once or twice, the oil becomes contaminated with fuel which would make it corrosive. This is just a guess though.
Fuel dilution is a far less problem than people talk about. I recall many people being paranoid about changing the oil in their diesel trucks because of fuel dilution. Amsoil even stuck with the OEM OCI on specific models because of this fear. However, every UOA sent in on these specific models showed zero fuel dilution.

The trick is, avoid short trip driving. When the lubricant doesn't maintain a temperature hot enough to boil off water/moisture/fuel, dilution remains.

Also, most engine tunes are spot on from the OEM, therefore....you are not washing down the walls of the cylinder with fuel. Our engines are direct injected, so that means even less fuel is used to achieve the proper air/fuel ratio.
 
#323 ·
I think if the oil was changed and the car wasn't driven at all, it would be ok past a year but because the car may have been driven once or twice, the oil becomes contaminated with fuel which would make it corrosive. This is just a guess though.
 
#325 ·
Finally got the bracket for the bypass system fab'ed and I am painting it now.
Can't wait to get it installed tomorrow and with any luck I may even get the final pieces installed/hoses routed and attached Sunday. [clap] [clap] [clap]
 
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top