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Old 11-27-2016, 11:15 PM   #1
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Unhappy CIRCUIT PROBLEM: Headlights, Wipers, Windows, Blower WONT WORK

Hi folks,

I have a 2001 ZTS Sedan, Manual, DOHC of course.

*Car drives fine. But Suddenly my Headlights, Wipers, Windows, Blower, and Rear Back-up lights won't work.

*Parking lights, turnsignals, hazard lights, electric mirrors, cigarette lighter, and radio still work.

After searching the forums here I tried as many remedies as I could find:

*I checked and tested all the fuses under the dash and in the engine compartment.
*I tested all the relays in the engine compartment.
*All relays and fuses work on their own. BUT....

*I still lack power for the following fuse circuits (even though the fuses aren't broken):

Engine Fuse Box:
F1 (electrical)
F2 (fan)
F16 Headlight
F17 Headlight
F26 Highbeam
F27 Highbeam
D1

Interior Fuse Box:
F39 Reverse Backup Lights?
F43
F44
F45 ?
F47 ?
F48 ?
F49 Rear Defrost
F53 Back-up lamps?
F54 ?
F55 Front Wipers
F56 Front Windows
F57 Rear Windows

When I turn on the headlights I can hear the headlight relays clicking on and off, but the headlights don't turn on.
I verified there is power going to the R1 ignition relay.

ATTEMPTED REMEDIES:
*I cleaned the battery terminals
*I cleaned the grounds under the aircleaner box
*I changed R1 ignition relay out for the fan relay (same relay)
*I wiggled the harness under the engine compartment fuse box
*changed out suspected fuses (even if they tested good)

No remedy seems to work so far.

I also tried to check the wiring to/inside the engine compartment fuse box, but I can't seem to get the fuse box fully disassembled because it is really stuck to the wiring harness which is preventing me from looking inside it to see if there is a bad connections somewhere. My battery leads and wires don't appear to be corroded or faulty.

HELP!

Any ideas? Is there a common single component that all the fuses that lack power are connected to that I can change out to fix this probem? Please help!!!


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Old 11-27-2016, 11:28 PM   #2
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Not common on sedans but check the trunk wiring for cracks or breaks. Could be an issue.

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Old 11-27-2016, 11:41 PM   #3
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Originally Posted by SPIinDisguise View Post
Not common on sedans but check the trunk wiring for cracks or breaks. Could be an issue.

Sent from the top of a tree.
I've heard about the hatch wiring going bad on hatchbacks. Didn't know sedans could face the same problem? But even if it were trunk wiring, would that affect Headlights, Windows, Blower, and Wipers?
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Old 11-28-2016, 12:56 AM   #4
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Moved to General Tech Chat, best place for most DIY repair questions.

Main fuse box is the right area to concentrate on, if you aren't getting power to the fuses you definitely won't have the items working.

I'd guess you have a relay/main fuse inop. despite checking, HOW were the relays tested? Just a click isn't good enough.
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Old 11-28-2016, 01:09 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sailor View Post
Moved to General Tech Chat, best place for most DIY repair questions.

Main fuse box is the right area to concentrate on, if you aren't getting power to the fuses you definitely won't have the items working.

I'd guess you have a relay/main fuse inop. despite checking, HOW were the relays tested? Just a click isn't good enough.
Technically I only tested R1 Ignition Relay. I put pos and neg leads to the smaller prongs. I could hear and feel them click. Yeah, I know, I really need to test if there's actually current though through the bigger prongs. However, I did take the fan relay which is the same as the Ignition Relay and swapped them out, and it didn't make a difference. (I'm assuming both relays can't be bad at the same time). As for the headlight relays I could hear and feel each of them click individually when I turned on the headlight switch to the ON position and when I switched to the highbeams "on" position as well.

Additionally I did go ahead and bridge the 3 and 5 position prongs directly on the fuse box itself at the R1 location. Even though I bridged it, and there IS power going through R1 junction, the main fuses F1, F2, and the headlight fuses still lacked any power.

Assuming the relays are ok, and there is power going through them, what would cause F1 and F2 and the headlights to lack power?
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Old 11-28-2016, 01:45 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sailor View Post
Main fuse box is the right area to concentrate on, if you aren't getting power to the fuses you definitely won't have the items working.
^This. There are three red wires coming off the battery positive terminal - one large, two smaller ones. I would suggest one of the two smaller ones has a break or intermittent. The ends of those wires are known for being subject to corrosion from the battery and corrosion can occur under the insulation (so the wire may look OK). Also those wires run close to the EGR pipe which can heat the insulation and make it and the wire inside brittle. It's also not unheard of for corrosion to occur on the underside of the engine junction fuse box.

Inspect the red wire leads and bypass them if necessary for testing purposes.

Clicking relays generally indicate insufficient voltage and usually are a result of dirty or intermittent connections or low overall system voltage (such as a dying/dead battery.)
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Old 11-28-2016, 01:59 AM   #7
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Originally Posted by BC_ZX3 View Post
^This. There are three red wires coming off the battery positive terminal - one large, two smaller ones. I would suggest one of the two smaller ones has a break or intermittent. The ends of those wires are known for being subject to corrosion from the battery and corrosion can occur under the insulation (so the wire may look OK). Also those wires run close to the EGR pipe which can heat the insulation and make it and the wire inside brittle. It's also not unheard of for corrosion to occur on the underside of the engine junction fuse box.

Inspect the red wire leads and bypass them if necessary for testing purposes.

Clicking relays generally indicate insufficient voltage and usually are a result of dirty or intermittent connections or low overall system voltage (such as a dying/dead battery.)
it's a new battery and new alternator about 5 months old so far. At the same time (5 mos ago) all three positive battery cables did have some corrosion. I striped the insulation down several inches on each lead (so I could see the wires inside) til I got to clean non-corroded wire, and I cut it and spliced on new ends for all 3 leads so that they would have fresh connections to the battery with no corrosion.

Without stripping the wire again, I did not observe any corrosion on any of the positive cables. I don't know how to get to the main engine compartment fuse box end of the cable though. I've tried taking apart the engine compartment fuse box, but I can't really get inside of it because all the wires (short length) is keeping it together.

How many positive leads from the battery go directly to the engine compartment fuse box? Maybe I can bypass the harness and wire directly? But I can't even get inside the box :/
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Old 11-28-2016, 02:26 AM   #8
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Ok, so on your suggestion I re-inspected the positive wire leads.....turns out one of the smaller ones, as you suggested, did have some very slight corrosion on the exposed part by the eyelet where it bolts into the battery terminal end. It was so minor. But I sprayed it with battery terminal cleaner and wire-brushed the corrosion off. Sure 'nuff, everything came back on!

Wow, had no idea that slight outter corrosion would impede it enough to shut down everything like that. Now the only thing I'm worried about is if there's still some unseen corrosion somewhere further down on that positive wire inside the insulation somewhere. It's a pain to have to actually replace the entire harness vs. just splicing new ends onto it after cutting away visible corroded wire length off it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BC_ZX3 View Post
^This. There are three red wires coming off the battery positive terminal - one large, two smaller ones. I would suggest one of the two smaller ones has a break or intermittent. The ends of those wires are known for being subject to corrosion from the battery and corrosion can occur under the insulation (so the wire may look OK). Also those wires run close to the EGR pipe which can heat the insulation and make it and the wire inside brittle. It's also not unheard of for corrosion to occur on the underside of the engine junction fuse box.

Inspect the red wire leads and bypass them if necessary for testing purposes.

Clicking relays generally indicate insufficient voltage and usually are a result of dirty or intermittent connections or low overall system voltage (such as a dying/dead battery.)
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Old 11-28-2016, 02:28 AM   #9
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Both of the smaller ones. One branches out with a factory splice and supplies high beam relay, low beam relay (with DRL), ignition relay directly. The other supplies power to most of the fused circuits in the engine bay junction box.
Is it possible that you may have inadvertently pulled on the wire during your first repair and put strain on the splice further in the cable?

Edit: Ignore that. See you have the problem isolated now.
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Old 11-28-2016, 02:54 AM   #10
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The fusebox and harness leading into it are not meant to be worked on, they are considered and sold as one piece. I've rewired the entire box before on one but you definitely need the entire thing out and in front of you to do it. I basically changed 100% of all wires to a new plastic box as the old one shattered in an accident.

I see at least 4 separate battery supply wires going into underhood fusebox. 1 and then 1 other that splits into 3 right around the box. That accounts for the 2 smaller wires mentioned above.

One of the leads off that 3 way split supplies the ignition relay and then the output from that relay goes to many of your faulted devices. The other 2 splits supply the low and high headlight relays.

If you have a 30 strand wire and 28 of the strands are melted or broken then you will get power checks that show as good but wire will not carry enough power to power up your devices.

You may not want to bypass if there is a melted short unless you guarantee it is cut 100% completely out of the circuit, otherwise it will still try to short and often they are melted into other circuits to complicate issues even more.
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