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Old 09-10-2005, 02:55 PM   #1
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Different Turbo question...

Alrighty, I know this is going to sound funny, and google did not turn up much.
However, I saw a few site while searching a different topic that were about different college students that built there own "selfsustaining" jet engines using exhaust driven turbos.
Basically they put in a combustion chamber (just the spark) to start it up and had the turbo loop back into itself (prepetual I guess) to keep it going and at a conistant rate of accel.


I understand that forced induction is just that... forced. But could it conceivably be forced the other way. As, instead of forcing it in, forcing it out. It exhaust driven and there is exaust before the muffler..... there would be no need for an intercooler since its not getting put back into the engine. Just force the air to move faster out...??


but I guess that would not provide pressure before the manifold.....


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Old 09-10-2005, 03:17 PM   #2
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huh? are trying to suck instead of blow? your exhaust is after the motor. basically with no motor, there is no exhaust. a turbo takes the air from the exaust and shoves it back into the intake. but if it were to suck, what would be driving this sucking machine? i think i get what your saying. but maybe im in left field.
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Old 09-10-2005, 03:27 PM   #3
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^^^ haha

Sorry forgot to mention.... yeah, kind of like a loop at the exhaust...
the exhaust spools the turbo and then conects back in to the exaust before the turbo inlet. Hence making the air leave the motor faster... If it can work that way..?
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Old 09-10-2005, 10:48 PM   #4
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No it won't work that way for your car. I believe what you are thinking of is a DIY jet engine, it uses parts of a turbo from a car or truck but it's not used to suplement a regular internal cumbustion. I've seen instructions on building a DIY jet engine on ebay, I think but it's not that complicated as I've heard. It is simalar to a turbo on a car with combostion being the difference the jet burns fuel like a space heater "you know the big kerosene ones" and when it burns expands the air turning the turbine making power and then bosting intake charge adding fuel it's low on torque getting started but it makes amazing horsepower quick. And you probably already know how the turbo works on a car.

Hope this helps on what your thinking about,but I may have the wrong idea about what your speaking of.
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Old 09-10-2005, 10:53 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally posted by scrammer
huh? are trying to suck instead of blow? your exhaust is after the motor. basically with no motor, there is no exhaust. a turbo takes the air from the exaust and shoves it back into the intake. but if it were to suck, what would be driving this sucking machine? i think i get what your saying. but maybe im in left field.
Now,... I've never seen one but my brother in law was telling me of somthing that worked like that but it was like a supercharger on the exhaust to pull out the exhaust gases making the moter draw in the intake better becouse of the improved exhaust. This was all 2nd hear say about a 6 cyl firebird.
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Old 09-10-2005, 11:04 PM   #6
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techies are cool.
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Old 09-10-2005, 11:23 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally posted by mountandriver
No it won't work that way for your car. I believe what you are thinking of is a DIY jet engine, it uses parts of a turbo from a car or truck but it's not used to suplement a regular internal cumbustion. I've seen instructions on building a DIY jet engine on ebay, I think but it's not that complicated as I've heard. It is simalar to a turbo on a car with combostion being the difference the jet burns fuel like a space heater "you know the big kerosene ones" and when it burns expands the air turning the turbine making power and then bosting intake charge adding fuel it's low on torque getting started but it makes amazing horsepower quick. And you probably already know how the turbo works on a car.

Hope this helps on what your thinking about,but I may have the wrong idea about what your speaking of.

Yeah.. thats it what I am talking about... the DIY thing. But not by burning other fuels. but still using the exhaust to still power the turbo, but just to loop the turbo outlet back into the exhaust system befor the turbo inlet to force air out faster.
Maybe like right after the cat.

Just a thought, ..
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Old 09-12-2005, 11:08 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally posted by cpyder
^^^ haha

Sorry forgot to mention.... yeah, kind of like a loop at the exhaust...
the exhaust spools the turbo and then conects back in to the exaust before the turbo inlet. Hence making the air leave the motor faster... If it can work that way..?

Nothing can be at or above 100% efficiency in that situation.


X energy comes out of engine
X energy spools turbo
X energy is "pulled" from the engine

X = X = X = 100% efficiency

in real world:

2X energy comes out of engine
1.5X energy spools turbo
1X energy is pulled from the engine

U lose energy from heat, inertia, sound, and a few other minor ways so you can never have 100% efficiency.

If you could get 100% from a car engine you would get ~ 130 MPG!!!! And no emmisions, sound, heat, or anything bad from a car!!!
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Old 09-12-2005, 11:14 AM   #9
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^^ so basically what you are saying it that a turbo does not work..??

If the exhaust at the exhaust mani can spool a turbo and get more power....
instead of forcing it back into the intake just loop it back into the exhaust mani infront of the turbo. Would it not make the air move out of the engine faster?

(p.s. I am really just killing time and brain cells, you do not really need to answer... I just do not completely understand your explaination.)
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Old 09-12-2005, 07:53 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally posted by cpyder
^^ so basically what you are saying it that a turbo does not work..??

If the exhaust at the exhaust mani can spool a turbo and get more power....
instead of forcing it back into the intake just loop it back into the exhaust mani infront of the turbo. Would it not make the air move out of the engine faster?

(p.s. I am really just killing time and brain cells, you do not really need to answer... I just do not completely understand your explaination.)
No it says a turbo works because it takes 1.5X energy to spool up and if it is using it to pull exhaust out it can only pull out 1.5X energy's worth.

If you are shoving air back into the intake you get much greater gains becasue it allows you add more gas which creates more energy IE 5X more power - 1.5X turbo spool = 3.5X power.

If you are sucking gas out you dont get any more energy :-)

Remember conservation of energy.
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