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300whp with Supercharger?

5K views 90 replies 20 participants last post by  HTPerformance 
#1 ·
Hey everyone...

I am looking for "down the road" performance mods to do, without going turbo to get my SVT to 300whp.

I really like cars that are turbo, but just don't want to go through all of the hassle with adding new oil lines and other crap to toss a turbo onto my car. A lot easier if the car already has a turbo factory installed.

Now, back to the topic.

My goals are for every day driving with this car...

I am considering lowering the compression to 8.5.1 or slightly there abouts, with beefier cams, built bottom (ofcourse), head work, injector upgrades, computer work and smal other upgrades to allow my car to run whatever boost it takes to hit 300whp.

Now, how possible is it for a supercharger to allow my SVT to run up to 300whp with lowering the compression, increased head work and the other small mods? Would I need to run 20+ psi of boost on the charger? Are there any chargers that allow for 20+psi, or is there a limit with chargers (never worked with them before, so I am unfamiliar with the amount of boost they can run).

Would a charger be ideal for making low-mid-high end torque, or low-mid-high end power? Or would a turbo be more ideal for that?

I know you can't have everything when it comes to performace with the engine, just would like to get as much as I can without going overboard.

I am NOT looking to make my car a 1/4 beast. If I wanted that, I would have gotten a different car from the start. More or less a quick off of the line car +.. a good amount of trq. and a car that can pull and pull. Especially in a street racing type of environment. Something that can stick with a turbo Cobra Stang or a Turbo Supra on the road, if need be (example). Maybe not that close with them.. but something that could be respectable.. maybe a 12.00 - 12.99 1/4 mile IF I was to make it into a 1/4 car.




Or, if tossing in a turbo is the better way to go for me. I don't really want to dump $20k in the car for the V-8 conversion because I think putting a turbo on the car or a charger with proper mods could keep up with the V-8 conversion for a while, until you hit over 140mph.



I am not looking at taking the car past 120 - 140mph, so, if that helps with my question on the SuperCharger... Also, I would hope superchargers will advance a lot within the next 4 years (that is probably when I will put the charger OR turbo on the car).



Thanks,


Rory
 
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#2 ·
Forgot 1 thing... Does a supercharger have LAG like a turbo, if not.. then wouldn't that be a "more ideal" thing to go with for my application IF I can get 300whp out of one.. with about 20+psi? Since the power will always be there when I step on the throttle?


Thanks again!


R.
 
#3 ·
supercharger has instant boost but the turbo has better boost throughout the whole range...supercharger is more of a low end boost, will give you better lower end no doubt but if u want some top end with low end a turbo is the way to go....to get a 300whp supercharged car you mind as well get a turbo charged car as it will be cheaper (not as much tuning needed) and turbos are just way cooler in my opinion :p

but if you are set on a supercharged car...300whp has been done b4, just search
 
#5 ·
I dont know if this will help you any, but I was thinking of turbo charging/supercharging my zx2 s/r. Both cars have a ztec engine but they differ slightly with heads and compression. If you want big boost I would suggest going with a screw type supercharger. Then your going to have to figure out how to mount it and what type of intercooler you decide to go with. I would go with a whipple supercharger (very efficient) and a air-water intercooler. You might want to check out this link. It is a zx2 with an eatom m90 supercharger with an air-water intercooler. I would do the same setup if I had a focus, but instead put on the whipple supercharger because of better efficiency and boost.

Hope that helps
Jeff

Supercharger Thread
http://www.geocities.com/teamcatalystracing/zx2/index.htm
 
#6 ·
With the svt's a supercharger would be a better way to go im looking into that myself and im most prolly going to go the supercharger route. In my opinion the supercharger would give u more power over a turbo but i think a supercharger will be a safer power enhancer
 
#8 ·
Thanks all..

WinnipegZX3.. when that kit comes out for the SVT.. is that with a stock engine setup? Or with upgraded internals & lowered compression? Cuz, if 300whp, or close to it can be squeezed out of a stock setup on an SVT, I would imagine that more would come out of it :) with better internals.

If having better engine internals won't help at all.. then I won't do lower compression and better internals.


Depending on how much everything will cost me in the long run... I may stick a built 2.3 4g63 stroker motor with AWD in the SVT :) Maybe run 20 - 25psi and do 9's or 10's :)

Just kidding.. although that would be cool.





Thanks again all!



R.
 
#13 ·
There is a Vortech SVT that is running around 270-280 at the wheels. The powerworks blower is capable of your power goals with really good tuning and a custom pulley among other things. And also not to bash tom or anything but he likes to make it seem like his way is the only way to reach your power goals the supercharging possibilities for the focus are only starting to be tapped so dont be so quick to think its not possible.
 
#14 ·
Well, I don't really want to get involved in that mess...(between the Turbo & Tom...) but, I know the easiest way to achieve my goals of 300whp would be a turbo.. But, if in a few years.. someone has a good supercharger on the market that allows me to run 3--whp without a problem & with my tuned and improved engine upgrades.. and it is a lot easier for an install than a turbo... I would probably go that route..

UNLESS.. the power band #'s suck completely and there is no pull from mid to high rpm's.



Thanks again.

R.
 
#15 ·
The first thing you need to understand is, cooler denser air will bring much more power then more hotter air.

Second thing, a blower will cause low end power loss even though you get boost sooner. Its driven from the crank, so therefore not nearly as efficent as a turbo.

Third, Turbos make power up top...I know more turbo 4bangers that I can count that are absolute dogs off the line, or as my friend put it, 'from a dig, I can take him on my sister's bicycle till about 25mph.'

Im gonna go with an F-trim for the time being, but the last person I heard of that was putting down 275hp to the wheel, ate his rings apart.
 
#16 ·
To cover a few things said , QUOTE "I know more turbo 4bangers that I can count that are absolute dogs off the line, or as my friend put it, 'from a dig, I can take him on my sister's bicycle till about 25mph."

This is caused from know knowing or buying a cheap turbo kit , the turbo kits i do will set you back in the seat anything above 2000RPM and keep you there till top of 6th

I just finished a SC Vortech that did 331HP at the wheels and was built as a daily driver but heres the kicker it only had 250TQ at the wheels

Stop worrying so much about HP# and look more at the TQ , TQ is what you feel at the seat of the pants and what get the Focus moving faster

Look at the TQ numbers on ALL your SC then at the TQ numbers on a Turbo , That is the numbers you should be looking at not HP

2003 SVT built engine Vortech 15PSI = 331/250 Figures at 17Psi roughly 340/260
2004 SVT same built engine exactly Turbo 17PSI 304/317

The Vortech has 26more HP but that would never make up for the 57TQ that is is lacking

That is why i push turbos , most think it is because i sell them, If the SC would make better TQ and out run the turbos i would be doing SC

Tom
 
#17 ·
Well.. Being around Turbo DSM's for almost 10 years.. I am quite familiar with turbo lag, tq., hp #'s, 1/4 times, etc..

If I could get amazing trq. #'s from start to finish and get the same with the HP.. I would go with whatever would get me there, no NOs though.

I am just looking to turn my SVT into a very nice & strong street runner... no 1/4 mile hog... but also a very clean daily driver. If I can hang with "MOST" street runners from 2,500 - 6,500, then sign me up for whatever will get me there most efficiently.

I have "always" been a fan of the turbo & not the supercharger... but if a superwharger will put me where I want to be with my goals and do it more efficiently, then I will go that route. But, if the turbo is a better way, then I will do that. I just am not a fan of lagging until 2,500+ with the turbo... so. But, since I am not going to be racing off of the line and will be going from a roll (10mph+), I don't think lag will be much of a factor.

I just don't want all of the custom fab work that comes with installing a turbo kit on a car that didn't originally come with 1. Potential for a crappy install job, leaking whatever's, etc.

I will do more research and hopefully make up my mind when it is time for my purchase.

Thanks,


R.
 
#18 · (Edited)
1turbofocus said:
To cover a few things said , QUOTE "I know more turbo 4bangers that I can count that are absolute dogs off the line, or as my friend put it, 'from a dig, I can take him on my sister's bicycle till about 25mph."

This is caused from know knowing or buying a cheap turbo kit , the turbo kits i do will set you back in the seat anything above 2000RPM and keep you there till top of 6th
Yeah, Im sure your turbo kits arent 'cheap' either are they? Lol.
Depends more on what you wanna do, you wanna be a dyno queen? fine, go right ahead..
Do you want more power on the road?
Do you want get faster ETs?

The general rule of thumb is, autos are much better for turbos, stall up, leave the line at 3grand. IMO turbos just dont sync aswell with manuals vs. Autos.

But, I dont know Focus at all...ill stick to Mustangs. [:D]

Btw, Im going custom turbo for both cars....
 
#21 ·
From what I gather, custom Turbo kits aren't ever cheap.. atleast $3,000+ (MINIMUM).

My last turbo, JUST THE TURBO, cost me $980. JUST the turbo, no lines, no intercooler, no custom this or that.. Just the turbo.... So, I am not really stressed on the price of the turbo kit... just want something that is going to be what I want.

If someone sells a kit which included the intercooler, pipes, turbo, etc.. The hole Sha-bang-a-bang, and I can pull 300FWHP+ without a problem. then that is what I am going to do.. Just as long as the quality, fitment and performance is rock solid. Not some half assed "bits N' pieces" kit that was put together for $XXX.XX number of dollars and still requires other misc. parts from other vendors to be ordered just to make the turbo setup fit, so someone can make a few dollars off of me.


I am not looking to beat on my car, ie.. 1/4 runs that require the rev's to be up near 6k+, then drop the clutch and watch as the tires peel N' squeel (1 wheel peel). I am looking for street racing performance with power all throughout the rev's. If a turbo kit is the way to go.. then that is what I will purchase, but if someone can prove/show me that a superchrager is the way to go, then I will go that route..


LUPURI: I agree with you on the statement about the auto's being better for turbo's. The rev's do not drop as much as with a manual (imo) when shifting.. so you can always keep that boost level at peak when racing.



On the DSM club forums.. people would always bash Dave Buschur (7.** 1/4 rwd talon) because he would always use the forums to promote his products at first, and people would be pissed about it. Sure, there were still plenty of others using the club forums to push their products.. but if you have a good product, why not self-promote every now N's then.

I noticed that Tom didn't say "GO TURBO AND BUY MY KIT".. he just said go with a turbo because..."...."

I do not know Tom, so please do not think I am on his side in any way. I was just looking to see if 300whp would be possible and better to go with a charger than a turbo.

I have always leaned towards the turbo when looking for more power, so.. if someone or company can prove me wrong with a supercharger kit they developed, then I will go charger. For now, I am still gung-ho about the turbo.



Thanks,

R.
 
#22 ·
Forgot one thing...

Tom,

You say your turbo kits don't really need a lot of time to spool..."the turbo kits i do will set you back in the seat anything above 2000RPM and keep you there till top of 6th." Is this on a stock Focus SVT motor or a built motor? If it is built, what compression, head work and other stuff was done to it?

How SMALL is the turbo you use on your kit? (website of your site). Or, if you use a larger turbo.. equivalent to a Big 16g on a dsm, or an 18g, 20g etc. that usually has some lag time. Or, are you using a T25, 14b or some other small turbo like what was sold on a 2nd gen Eclipse/Talon to not have such a large lag time? Or, do you use a ball bearing system (garret ball bearing cartridge type) in your turbo kit?

I just want to see how many cfm's your turbo flows that you sell with the kit, and at what ranges. Any more info on the turbo's that you use would be great... Is it a Mitsu turbo or another brand?

The turbo I had, PTE 50trim, was good for my 500+whp on my Galant VR-4 DSM with my 2.3 stroker and supporting mods, ~about high 10's in the 1/4. I think that turbo had about 560+++cfm flow rate. can't remember the # exactly. I think the t-25's and other small turbo's have a cfm of about 200-ish? maybe up to 300 if they are lucky?



Thanks,


R.
 
#24 ·
HOLY COW POOP Batman..!

Almost $6,000 for Tom's Kit? Seems VERY overpriced for what you get.. imo. An intercooler that should cost about $1,000... some piping that should be about $600ish, clamps N' hoses.. maybe $100 at most?? manifold, maybe $500, oil pan.. $150? injectors (what brand, Denso? or crap ones) maybe $500 at most depending on the brandand a turbo.. maybe $800 - 1000?

About $3,800 at most in my opinion... plus install, which has to be done, no matter what. Just wait a year or 2.. and there will be other good turbo kits on the market as well.. Then, everyone will be forced to lower their pricing.

That is what happens at first, when their is only a select few turbo kits on the market.. people/vendors can charge whatever they want to.. and people will be forced to pay that price.. because they want more power and don't wat to wait.


Thanks,

R.
 
#25 ·
http://www.diamondstarmotorsport.com/turboparts.shtml

A DSM vendor... same place I bought my PTE 50 trim about 1 year ago. They have the Turbonetics T3/T4.

Turbine Wheel: Stage III & Turbine Housing: .63 AR & Compressor: T04E 50 Trim, should get about 450whp with tha application on a DSM.. Don't know how bad the lag is, but thay say it spools up slightly faster than the PTE 50 trim I had.. and that was about 3,000 rpms for 22psi. So, if the turbo specs I put up here are close to Tom's turbo choice, then just the turbo alone should be about $775....

Whatever the case...




Thanks,

R.
 
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