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Old 09-09-2004, 09:47 AM   #1
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Lightbulb Just a little innovative thought.

I have been thinking over the past few days about a turbo system that could be possible.

I do not know the most about a turbo, just that it uses the exhaust pressure from the engine to spin a fan on a rotor that is connected to the air intake. I probably am wrong but that is the basics. It has been two years since my auto tech class. ( slept through most of that....) But you could build a turbo system that could be called man controlled or i like to call it stand alone turbo system.
The person driving the car would have complete controll of the blow off valve by button on shifter. now you guys are gonna tell me that I am going to blow my block to high heaven right? Nope. After the fan that pulls air in the intake and past the blades i am assuming the blow off valve rests there. have a small tank that is low to med pressure by the blowoff. that would take the extra air that comes from the fan and store it in this holding tank. this would take the need away to have the blowoff running so much .
So lets say that you just ran your car pretty hard and you let the tank charge and you blew off the extra extra air. you are stoped at a stop sign and you want to give her hell again. a button or an switch of somekind(maybe even a computer could controll this) would take the air that the turbo had stored in the tank and circulate it to the front on the exhaust end of the turbo and you coud possibly get your turbo moving sooner than later. so you could have the charge of a turbo start winding up at 1500-2500 RPM instead of a higher RPM. and the cycle could just keep going on and on. Charge up stop dump charge stop dunp charge.

Sounds a little flakey even to me but still if NASA can make it to the moon.

There would also be and emergency blowoff just incase you overcharge the system.

I may sound crazy but I am not. I just have a big imagination


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Old 09-09-2004, 12:01 PM   #2
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so, basically, you want to build a system to store the BOV air, then use it to spool up the turbo when you leave from a stop. Basically, air-powered anti-lag. Thats way more complicated then getting a correctly-sized turbo, but its an interesting idea...
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Old 09-09-2004, 12:12 PM   #3
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Well i think its a good idea. But why would you want that much power down low on a FWD car. Unless your a full out drag focus.... (i know you ment other cars also)
But i see what your saying and it sounds pretty neat, but i think it will stay as an idea rather then reality, just for sheer complications of the system.
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Old 09-09-2004, 12:25 PM   #4
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Wow! That's a pretty interesting idea. The possible uses for a system of that kind...It could be something revelotionary.

Then again, maybe not.

Sounds cool though.
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Old 09-09-2004, 12:31 PM   #5
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as an aside, I looked at the 2005 F350 super duty last night. The turbo is ON TOP of the engine!!! WTF??? there was some serious shyt going on under that hood. pipes running all over the place to the turbo, the intercooler, back again. wow. And to complicate things a solid 75% of the engine was UNDER the firewall and inaccessable, including the turbo! way to provide a design for service Ford, way to go.
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Old 09-09-2004, 12:56 PM   #6
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^^^Glad I don't have to work on that.
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Old 09-13-2004, 09:36 PM   #7
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I actually have design and release responsibilites for that engine for 2005 MY (with a couple of other guys) at Ford, so tread lightly on your criticisms!

The piping is there for several reasons. First it is a V-8 pulling exhaust from each bank to drive the turbo. It is not as easy to place on the engine as a 4-banger one is. Secondly, you need a much bigger turbo than you would in a four banger, so the size necessitates the location in the valley. Third, that vehicle is a towing beast that has multiple coolers (oil, egr, charge air, and engine coolant), so real estate at the front of the engine bay is at a premium. Fourth, the mechanics and controls on any modern common rail, turbo charged, direct injection engine will blow away a gas engine any day, hence the need for all of the pipes, wires, etc.

The Powerstroke engine for 2005 has a very cool variable geometry turbo that actually changes the vane structure such that it spins up faster during accelerations and can allow the turbo to keep up at higher engine speeds and loads with a single vane design. That is the true way to solve your turbo lag problem, but it requires some tuning/calibration.

And no, I have nothing to do with the packaging under the hood. You would be surprised how servicable that thing is.
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Old 09-13-2004, 09:39 PM   #8
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BTW, the engine with all those pipes and wires, along with a beefed up frame, allows the F-Series Super Duty to tow over 17,000 lbs! We are going to blow the competition away, just like we did with the F150 over the last year. Sorry, this is a Focus message board, but I am proud of my product!
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Old 09-15-2004, 11:47 AM   #9
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gotta agree with zslaton. I've worked on a bunch of powerstrokes. they're packaged real well for service. also keep in mind...this is a DIESEL motor. diesel's don't have throttle plates, and because they're meant for low end grunt, they want to minimize the intake tract volume to reduce lag. there really isn't anywhere else they can put the turbo due to space requirements. it can't go at the bottom because the oil has to be able to drain back to the pan. they need to be somewhere with enough space for two exhaust manifolds (or pipes from the manifolds) can come together, have enough room for the turbo, and enough room for the down pipe.

if anyone thinks they have a better design, feel free to write to ford, but don't expect them to do anything. there's a reason the f series has been the best selling truck for a few decades.

BTW, it's more like 25% of the engine, and it's not under the FIREWALL, it's under the cowl, which has a lot of removable parts, allowing easy access to any part of the motor needed.
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Old 09-15-2004, 12:04 PM   #10
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okay, under something. All I know is that it looked like the back of the engine was WAAAAY back there. I didn't know its a variable geometry turbo, that's pretty cool. Wonder how hard it would be to swipe one of Saabs VGT's and toss it on the Focus. Probably SUPER hard. Isn't the Aerocharger system a VGT?

Zach, I realize that packaging and technology requirements of engines these days dictate design. I'm an engineer myself so I understand that things are done for a reason. It just seems like some of the Ford designs have been sketchy lately. The F150/expedition is terrible! you can get at the first two plugs and that's about it.

What REALLY pisses me off on the Zetec is the placement of the Idle Air Control valve. on the inboard side the intake manifold? Come on. How about the PCV valve? You can barely get to the dang thing unless you have little girl hands. I can't even pull the dang thing out. Any service guys in here know replace that? Do I just need t obe rough with it and bust out the pliers. The freakin' hose won't even come off the end. argh. I'm all for efficiency, but I'm pretty mad that I can't work on my own freakin' engine anymore.

I don't suppose you know anyone in the PCM software groups who could tell me the sources for a P0171 lean engine fault code do you?
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