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Old 05-08-2010, 03:43 PM   #1
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Discuss: Meter your second cat instead of your first

Turbo causes one very big problem for a lot of people, and that is the manicat. Emissions laws don't take kindly to folks deleting portions of their emission systems. From what I understand, we get away with it on our exhausts because the second cat isn't metered...

But what if it was?

Would it be possible to put sensors in the second cat and send your ECU (and thus emissions testing equipment) bona-fide statistics on your exhaust? I imagine this would require the attention of several experts, since the different sensor location would mean you'd obviously expect different readings to mean "good" or "bad," but it's gotta look better on an emissions report than "O2 sensor disabled."


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Old 05-08-2010, 03:46 PM   #2
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the federal law is that you cannot take off your cats. that includes the main cat that goes with the install of a turbo.
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Old 05-08-2010, 08:13 PM   #3
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There's a bit of "wiggle" room in the laws, even in california as there's such a thing as CARB legal replacement parts (non-stock), performance mods., upgrades...
One cycle parts manufacturer actually got CARB official approval for replacement non-stock exh. components (mufflers) incl. catalyst type...

And then we now have a split in emissions standards between a number of states, not just California, outside of cars in particular there are even more variable standards, while in cars alone laws, rulings and enforcement can vary down to the locality even in what's "legal" - despite federal rulings that attempt to preclude this...

Now the federal law I think gemini47 refers to, originally read something like " Illegal to tamper with so as to render inoperative any portion of an emissions system, thereby increasing emissions above the federal standard as approved for that vehicle".

I make no claim to verbatim, only to the general intent of the original statute, which was to deter changes bringing a vehicle out of federal compliance, while ALLOWING any operations necessary for maintenance, repair or even (as I've seen elsewhere) "modification to bring into substantial compliance with the law".

This is where Roland07's question comes in, and is worth consideration, as modification to INCREASE emissions performance such as monitoring a cat not previously monitored,or possibly installing a new secondary cat after that one to replace it's function, could be considered as returning a vehicle to compliance through appropriate modification...

Now as a guess, such a mod. is more likely to bring a vehicle into Federal compliance than the more restrictive California rules. That said, it seems worthy of consideration, experimentation & testing by any interested - not just to pass a test easier tomorrow, but to potentially achieve "legal" emissions in at least SOME of the states...

Personally, I'm happy that PZEV vehicles exist! I own one, and I recently saw an engineering paper that showed MUCH worse pollution from electric vehicles when only taking into account current power source emissions, not including life cycle calculations...

Also, like many here,I'd not turn down a bit of extra pep - which wouldn't have to come from "factory" sources! If Henry had waited for the "factory", none of us would be driving as we are today!

Cheers!

End of Missive - let's get back to the waylaid discussion proposed!
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Old 05-08-2010, 09:16 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gemini47 View Post
the federal law is that you cannot take off your cats. that includes the main cat that goes with the install of a turbo.
I just started to ROFL lol,

no pun intended
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Old 05-08-2010, 09:32 PM   #5
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I just started to ROFL lol,

no pun intended
and the pun was where exactly?
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Old 05-08-2010, 11:55 PM   #6
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Old 05-09-2010, 08:50 AM   #7
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Sorry Jim...that's not a pun...
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Old 05-09-2010, 12:51 PM   #8
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Old 05-10-2010, 07:05 PM   #9
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Threadjack status confirmed. XD

Yeah, I know that such a system would still raise eyebrows. What I want is to hook it up to a sniffer and see if the proof is in the pudding. I know the Focus doesn't -need- two cats, with only my manicat installed I took my car to emissions testing and scored 1/10th to 1/20th the legal limits on all of the parameters.
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Old 05-10-2010, 08:58 PM   #10
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Posted via FF MobileCat could get pissed if you shoved sensors down the throat & up the butt....
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