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Old 12-30-2012, 07:35 PM   #11
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So let me get this straight the cars are tested under carefully specified conditions, on a dyno. Then the numbers are approved by the EPA to show no cheating on the numbers. But yet customers can sue and win for the numbers being wrong, how does that work?
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Old 12-30-2012, 08:32 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheGlassMaker View Post
So let me get this straight the cars are tested under carefully specified conditions, on a dyno. Then the numbers are approved by the EPA to show no cheating on the numbers. But yet customers can sue and win for the numbers being wrong, how does that work?
Because they don't read the fine print which states in 1000pt font that your mileage may vary, and they just get upset when they drive worse in the real world than the car performs under idealized conditions. Its the whole squeaky wheel gets the grease syndrome, as well as people being whiny and selfish.

They want those numbers to reflect what they get when they lead foot it around.

Which was why the 2008+ numbers and testing was modified slightly to more accurately reflect real world by adding a few more tests, ones with more a/c usage as well as higher speeds which factors into the numbers to give a more accurate approximation, as opposed to the original rough approximation. However this just didn't give the people what they wanted, which was numbers lower than what they would actually see in the real world which would make them feel better.

There are many people which can beat or exceed the EPA numbers who don't complain that the numbers are too low, but those who bitch about not meeting the numbers say they are too high or are some how falsified.
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Old 12-30-2012, 09:03 PM   #13
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My understanding is the EPA doesn't do the testing and approve the window sticker numbers, they set testing procedures and generally trust the manufacturers to adhere to the guidelines. They basically audited Hyundai over their recent claims and found them innacurate, and Hyundai admitted they screwed up their testing procedure, which miraculously improved their numbers.

The only recent car I remember consistently beating advertised estimates is the Jetta TDI, if I remember correctly it's rated at around 43 MPG highway and journalists routinely see significantly better mileage, nearer 50 MPG.

All that said, I will shoot myself in the foot if you can prove to me you got 47 MPG in a Fusion hybrid. Short of extreme hyper miling techniques, that number has always sounded like utter bullshit to me and I'm not a bit surprised Ford is taking heat over this, and I really expect these advertised numbers to be revised shortly.

Do you guys really think Ford has the ability to produce a cheap midsize sedan that can get near that mileage claim?
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Old 12-30-2012, 09:15 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 6SPD_soul View Post
My understanding is the EPA doesn't do the testing and approve the window sticker numbers, they set testing procedures and generally trust the manufacturers to adhere to the guidelines. They basically audited Hyundai over their recent claims and found them innacurate, and Hyundai admitted they screwed up their testing procedure, which miraculously improved their numbers.

The only recent car I remember consistently beating advertised estimates is the Jetta TDI, if I remember correctly it's rated at around 43 MPG highway and journalists routinely see significantly better mileage, nearer 50 MPG.

All that said, I will shoot myself in the foot if you can prove to me you got 47 MPG in a Fusion hybrid. Short of extreme hyper miling techniques, that number has always sounded like utter bullshit to me and I'm not a bit surprised Ford is taking heat over this, and I really expect these advertised numbers to be revised shortly.

Do you guys really think Ford has the ability to produce a cheap midsize sedan that can get near that mileage claim?
The EPA does test cars and confirm results, maybe not for every single car, but they do monitor the results, and most O.E. vehicle manufactures don't cheat for the precise reason that by self policing they generally avoid the issues that Hyundai faced.

Given how the previous Fusion hybrid was capable of close to if not over 42 mpg city and the new one has a better powertrain it should do better at least in the city, and aero tweaks to help the highway test result.

I can't confirm the results, but the test is done on a dynomometer, and if it can run as extensively and as quickly on electric only propulsion it can get much higher mpg ratings on the test than is easily achieved in the real world with a lead footed driver.
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Old 12-30-2012, 09:51 PM   #15
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Most people drive 75-80 mph , of course they wont get the EPA number, the EPA is set for speed between 55-62 mph.
I've got 40 mpg with my ST while driving on the Jersey highway going 55 mph
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Old 12-31-2012, 05:51 AM   #16
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The first thing to remember is that the EPA rating is not a prediction. It's a comparison.
The EPA rating is generated in a lab, not on the road. That's why you can compare one vehicle to another: they were all tested under identical conditions. If automakers apply the test honestly -- I'm talking to you, Hyundai-Kia -- it's the best way to compare vehicles' fuel consumption and cost.
The EPA fuel economy ratings aren't perfect, but they're the only game in town. If hybrid technology outstrips the current test, the EPA and Department of Energy have plenty of PhDs to fix it.
http://www.freep.com/article/2012122...y-fuel-economy
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Old 12-31-2012, 08:38 AM   #17
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The problem is that most people don't understand how cars work. All they understand is advertising.

When they buy a 47mpg hybrid and in the first week of ownership put their family and luggage in it with e10 fuel and go on a road trip at 75mph using the air conditioner and in-car entertainment they just expect to get 47mpg by default.
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Old 12-31-2012, 08:54 AM   #18
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Old 01-01-2013, 10:09 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FFTeam View Post
[IMG]That top electric-only speed means that for the portion of the EPA's highway fuel-efficiency test, which maxes out at 60 mph, the car can travel in electric-only mode without the gasoline engine kicking on; essentially the C-Max Hybrid is optimized for the EPA test.
Of course manufacturers optimize their cars for the EPA test. If you do that, you can advertise great MPG numbers like ford did and also bump up CAFE ratings to offset the sale of trucks
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Old 01-06-2013, 12:25 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by National Motorists Association blog
In other words, your mileage will vary.

Unfortunately for Honda – and potentially every other seller of hybrid cars and perhaps cars, period – there are a lot of people out there who cannot read and comprehend the meaning of plain English and worse, assume everything the government tells them must be true, since it’s the government that’s telling it to them. Thus, they become angry when reality disabuses them – but unfortunately, they channel their anger toward the wrong party.

Here is the truth about the Civic hybrid – and all hybrids:

If you drive it very gingerly, if you keep it under 50MPH and accelerate very gradually, it is entirely possible to realize the federal government’s publicized “high” MPG figures – and even to exceed them. The problem, of course, is that it is difficult to drive this way if you ever want to get anywhere – and/or have any concern about not driving your fellow drivers to fury by impeding their progress.
Original article: Honda MPG Lawsuit: Well, She Won
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