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Old 04-03-2009, 05:10 PM   #1
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Grrrrrr still no diesel

OH Look Ford is making the Transit Connect optioned for families with all the cool stuff, and more that the Focus has.

Ford Family One

Where's the diesel? Why would Ford think that families could use a small van that just gets 25 mpg- which is less than the Honda Odyssey, or even the Grand Caravan according to the EPA. Why bother even releasing it in the first place WITHOUT a diesel? Will someone in the Ford family please go ask a VW dealer how many Jetta diesels they have on the lot? Diesels would go great for a modern family van- I mean, I'd really like to drive a mini-van that got more than 30 mpg. I know Ford had problems with the launch of the 6.0 Powerstroke, but for goodness sake, can't someone in Ford learn from the mistakes of the past? Train people on the engines before you release it to the public. It's not like the 2.0 TDCI is a new engine that could have design flaws like the early 6.0 PS engine.

I happen to fit right in the demographics of the customer Ford is marketing this van for. I'm complaining about the lack of a TDCI option, so maybe someone will want one. We're not the Americans who were tricked into purchasing gasoline engines re-tooled for diesel in big American cars in the early 80's.

All I can say, if it has to be gas, at least make it an Ecoboost engine.


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Old 04-03-2009, 05:18 PM   #2
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I'm with you on the ecoboost thing!
and I feel your frustration about the diesel
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Old 04-03-2009, 08:11 PM   #3
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I would love a diesel but Americans just have not adapted to them. They are still perceived as dirty...and we are hybrid crazy here so I think the chances are slim.
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Old 04-03-2009, 08:44 PM   #4
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There are cars that get 30+ MPG on regular gas. Until America has enough diesel refineries to bring cost per gallon closer to gas, the hybird appears to have the payback advantage. The initial cost of both is higher than a gas power car. I'm not a big fan of diesels or hybirds.
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Old 04-03-2009, 10:38 PM   #5
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There are cars that get 30+ MPG on regular gas. Until America has enough diesel refineries to bring cost per gallon closer to gas, the hybird appears to have the payback advantage. The initial cost of both is higher than a gas power car. I'm not a big fan of diesels or hybirds.
Anyone like me who has driven a gasoline work van loaded with material and tools, and then driven a diesel work van knows the difference that you're missing. Modern diesels are not dirty, and biodiesel is greener than hybrids. If you check the EPA, Jetta diesels get better fuel economy and lower cost of operation than a Prius or any other hybrid.

One thing I can tell you about a small diesel is that you'll be able to load the van down with anything you want, and still get the same fuel economy. Try loading a gasoline van down with a person in every seat and luggage. You'll find fuel economy suffering greatly as well as power. I had to well overload the 6.0 PS van that I drove before the MPG dipped below 20. I have pics of what it looked like when we were only getting 17.

You do represent the mentality of Americans that are preventing good diesels from being sold by American manufacturers- all due to GM's mistakes in the 80's. It's sad. I'd like to drive a Focus wagon that got 50 mpg some day. That's not going to happen with gasoline. I think there's a newer version of the Focus TDCI that gets 70 mpg- but no, not in the USA.

Meanwhile, you can't find a Jetta diesel for sale on the dealer's lot.
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Old 04-04-2009, 06:59 AM   #6
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No kidding. My wife drives an '03 Jetta TDI and LOVES it. Drives the 5spd like a race car and still avgs 43mpg. Yet she still gets stuck in behind the morons who commute (by themselves) in their Expeditions and Escalades at 15 mpg.
Watch the TDI cup race series. These guys are full on racing and get 24mpg. Audi TDIs clean up at Sebring and Daytona. We Americans just don't get it.
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Old 04-04-2009, 09:19 AM   #7
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^^ I sob every time I see a TDI Jetta Wagon. I am just not completely convinced of VW's repair record due to issues I had with them in their cars 10 years ago. The Jetta hasn't changed much since then, but hopefully all the bad heads are used up. BTW, those weren't diesel heads, just bad gas heads on the N/A 1.8.
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Old 04-04-2009, 01:02 PM   #8
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i would like a diesel. the reason why they are so much more than a gas powered variant is because typically the manufacturer couples the diesel option with a higher trim level and with options which inflate the price. for example, you cannot get a jetta TDI base, it comes equipped like an SEL trim with the optional sunroof. you cannot get a jeep grand cherokee laredo diesel, you have to get either a limited or a overland with navigation and other bells and whistles. this helps the manufacturer recoupe some of the costs. the engines themselves arent the expensive part, its the "clean emmisions" catalysts and bluetec systems that are super expensive to manufacture but they are needed to sell in all 50 states.
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Old 04-04-2009, 01:22 PM   #9
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I'm still confounded as to why diesel adoption has been so slow over in the US.

The first diesel I owned was a 1994 Fiesta. 1.8 litre. no turbo. THAT really WAS a dirty boneshaker. The torque on the thing was mental. You didn't really need 1st gear. I'd get 70MPG in that all day. (To be fair, you couldn't really thrash it - it was a case of "put your foot down and waiiiiiiiit")

The same engine is basically in my current Focus. But with a cat, a turbo, and a common rail electronic injection system. It's still got that torque, but now has the acceleration to match. 55MPG on a good day. 38 if I cane it :)

It's much cleaner too. It has a DPF, so there's virtually no soot. When you bury the peddle into the carpet you get a little shudder, clatter, a whoosh as the turbo kicks in, and a tiny cloud of smoke.. But nothing like a "proper diesel".

Here in the UK, the amount of road tax you pay is dependant on emissions. My car is something like 129g/km. So it's in the lower band. A 1.8 petrol equivelant is at the top end of the next tax band.

The new 1.6 TDCi Fiesta ecoNetic emits 99g/km and is exempt from road tax all together! That's heading up for 70MPG again, too.

I think clean diesels are a better solution than "hybrids". Conventional hybrids suck really. These upcoming EREVs are better. Electric cars with an engine not connected to the wheels in any mechanical way..
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Old 04-04-2009, 03:14 PM   #10
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Using a diesel in a work van or for towing is better, that I will agree with. As you state mileage differs little loaded or unloaded. What I'm saying is, if your driving habits won't offset the higher initial cost and upkeep( oil changes cost more) why get something that cost 30 to 50 cents more per gallon. Again if we refined more diesel the cost would be lower.
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