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Old 07-12-2011, 10:47 AM   #1
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F-150 Raptor .....issue?.....

http://jalopnik.com/5820104/are-ford...or-off+roading

http://www.tundraheadquarters.com/bl...ending-defect/

Where it all started:

http://www.raptorforumz.com/showthread.php?t=14254


Please do those of us with enough intelligence to reason a huge favor and read a bit before commenting.... I'd like to know how a community like this feels about such a concern and not have a thread full of trolls and fools. It's a pipe dream, I know :picard:
I personally think there is more wrong with the owners than the truck, but.... I'd also consider making a focus anything more than a fuel-sipping grocery-getter an exercise in "making a vehicle operate beyond it's intended use" as well..... So I figure, what better place to ask these questions?? :

Is there a defect in the truck or did these guys find it's limit?
Should the warranty cover the repairs? If so, why?
Does the marketing of the truck provide implicit acceptability of this particular use?
Is there a line to be drawn with operating capabilities and where is it?



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Old 07-12-2011, 10:56 AM   #2
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HAHAHA and people where arguing with me when I said you can build and cage a F150 that could out handle the Raptor for cheaper or just a little more compared to the price of the Raptor.

It is definitely an issue with the truck and how it was advertised. ALOT of people thought Ford raced bone stock ones in Baja and advertised the truck as being able to race Baja so in turn people thought it could handle what ever they threw at it. The limits of the truck where passed and these should not be jumped or go hauling ass thru whoops in the desert. If the put a slower rebound valve in the rear shock it would take a little of the impact off the frame. The rear end is traveling down too fast and pulling the frame with it. From what I have heard this isnt covered under warranty
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Old 07-12-2011, 11:18 AM   #3
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HAHAHA and people where arguing with me when I said you can build and cage a F150 that could out handle the Raptor for cheaper or just a little more compared to the price of the Raptor.

It is definitely an issue with the truck and how it was advertised. ALOT of people thought Ford raced bone stock ones in Baja and advertised the truck as being able to race Baja so in turn people thought it could handle what ever they threw at it. The limits of the truck where passed and these should not be jumped or go hauling ass thru whoops in the desert. If the put a slower rebound valve in the rear shock it would take a little of the impact off the frame. The rear end is traveling down too fast and pulling the frame with it. From what I have heard this isnt covered under warranty
What people think and what actually goes on may be different things, I believe the drivetrain was the only "stock" part of the Baja R truck. "Born from Baja" doesn't imply it's capable of anything that can be thrown at it either. Saabs are "born from jets" but I don't find it reasonable to suggest it's lack of ability to remain airborne is a manufacturing or marketing defect.....
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Old 07-12-2011, 11:24 AM   #4
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It doesnt imply that it can handle everything to you because your head isnt up your ass like most of the people who buy these trucks and I agree with you on it doesnt mean it can take it. A lot of the people who buy these are all in the same category as the people who buy a Lambo and wonder why they totaled it a year later. The couple people who where arguing with me on here thought they raced a stock Raptor in Baja so not everyone think alike. The drivetrain was the only "stock" thing about it. They braced/gusseted the rear end and did a little tuning and intake/ exhaust. Normal bolt on stuff.

Revalving the rear shocks an mounting a hydraulic bump stop on the frame would help alot to slow the rear suspension down on these trucks. It look like when it limits out its hitting the frame and causing it to bow.
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Old 07-12-2011, 11:58 AM   #5
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It doesnt imply that it can handle everything to you because your head isnt up your ass like most of the people who buy these trucks and I agree with you on it doesnt mean it can take it. A lot of the people who buy these are all in the same category as the people who buy a Lambo and wonder why they totaled it a year later. The couple people who where arguing with me on here thought they raced a stock Raptor in Baja so not everyone think alike. The drivetrain was the only "stock" thing about it. They braced/gusseted the rear end and did a little tuning and intake/ exhaust. Normal bolt on stuff.

Revalving the rear shocks an mounting a hydraulic bump stop on the frame would help alot to slow the rear suspension down on these trucks. It look like when it limits out its hitting the frame and causing it to bow.
I'd agree that most people have more $ than brains and as a result they may find themselves in a situation like this..... but that STILL doesn't make Ford liable for false advertising campaigns (as it seems your previous comment suggests) nor does it mean the vehicle isn't capable of being operated in the manner in which it was designed.

What would be required to prevent this situation is an entirely different matter..... My first reaction would be to NOT hit kicks as high as the tire at 80mph but you are correct in your suggestion of why the frame is being damaged....
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Old 07-12-2011, 12:13 PM   #6
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Not suggesting false adverting at all. All their videos say Professional driver do not attempt or something along those lines. Its the drivers fault for taking the adverts literally. In all the Ford videos they are only going 65 at most which I used to do in my pretty much stock Ranger in the desert. But I knew the limits of the truck and wouldnt jump it going more then 30. Its people who think they can go faster and bigger and dont know the true limits of the truck. I will say Ford should have said a few more cautions and do not attempts and shouldnt have offered an off road warranty.
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Old 07-12-2011, 01:30 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Inside Line
These leaf springs look fairly soft, with only two main leafs. The third "helper" leaf (black) is short and insubstantial. It all adds up to a more-linear rear suspension that's good at gliding over whoops and ruts in the dirt, but less-than-ideal for high payloads and large trailer tongue weights.

The listed payload for the Raptor is 1,020 lbs, but that's only if the actual truck sticks close to Ford's claimed 5,863-pound curb weight. This Raptor weighed 5,957 pounds on our scales. When we subtract that from the Raptor's 6,950-pound GVWR, we're left with an actual as-equipped payload of 993 pounds for this particular truck.
(Source)


So you've got a ~6,000 pound truck with only a 1,000 pound payload. Doesn't take a genius to figure out that jumping the truck is a very bad idea and will end in catastrophe.

And by the looks of it, every other Ford truck should stand up to jumping better than the Raptor --> http://www.ford.com/trucks/f150/specifications/payload/


It is not a frame problem in the least. It's a problem with the leaf pack and payload.
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Old 07-12-2011, 01:52 PM   #8
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So you've got a ~6,000 pound truck with only a 1,000 pound payload. Doesn't take a genius to figure out that jumping the truck is a very bad idea and will end in catastrophe.

And by the looks of it, every other Ford truck should stand up to jumping better than the Raptor --> http://www.ford.com/trucks/f150/specifications/payload/


It is not a frame problem in the least. It's a problem with the leaf pack and payload.
So, because the payload of a dual rear-wheel F350 is substantially higher it should be more suited for jumping?

Nice attempt at associating the difference between the two 1/2 trucks to this issue but I'm afraid increasing the load capacity of the leaf springs isn't going to prevent the frame from bending at the bump stop under X amount of force.

Suiting a vehicle for becoming airborne is better acquired through spring rate, suspension travel and dampening rates than it is with load capacity.
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Old 07-12-2011, 02:41 PM   #9
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Huh?

Dampening rate has nothing to do with either travel or load capacity. That is all accomplished by the spring.

"Load Capacity" is directly relative to the load the suspension is put under during a 'jump'. For the standard Regular cab 4x4 F-150 it takes 1,620 pounds to bottom out the suspension. For the Raptor it takes 1,020 pounds. That extra 600 pounds of force makes a huge difference.
For perspective, it's exactly the same as throwing a thicker swaybar or higher spring rate in a Focus to improve handling. Stiffer suspension means less body roll, which is that corner handling more load/weight.

Where you come up with a F-350 is beyond me. The list is only for the F-150.
Also you said it yourself in your last sentence. Just didn't fully think through that before it.
Load capacity = spring rate.
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Old 07-12-2011, 02:57 PM   #10
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Huh?

Dampening rate has nothing to do with either travel or load capacity. That is all accomplished by the spring.

"Load Capacity" is directly relative to the load the suspension is put under during a 'jump'. For the standard Regular cab 4x4 F-150 it takes 1,620 pounds to bottom out the suspension. For the Raptor it takes 1,020 pounds. That extra 600 pounds of force makes a huge difference.
For perspective, it's exactly the same as throwing a thicker swaybar or higher spring rate in a Focus to improve handling. Stiffer suspension means less body roll, which is that corner handling more load/weight.

Where you come up with a F-350 is beyond me. The list is only for the F-150.
Also you said it yourself in your last sentence. Just didn't fully think through that before it.
Load capacity = spring rate.

I want some of what you are smoking, my friend!

Shock Dampeners dampen movement, not springs. Dampeners have NO effect on spring rate.
Spring rate = the amount of weight required to compress the spring. These can be fixed or variable but a very simple example of a spring rate would be 1000lbs/in. This means that in order to compress the spring 1 inch, 1000lbs of force will be required
The load capacity of a pickup truck is not equal to the spring rate and the load capacity is in no way related to when the springs reach the limit of their travel (bottom-out).

You have no idea where I came up with an F350? I used it as an example to illustrate that your suggestion of having a greater load capacity (standard F150 over the Raptor) was equal to the vehicle being better capable of withstanding jumps was ABSURD.

I'm having a hard time finding anything accurate in your last post


Is it possible for a thread to go a single page without being thrown off topic? lol
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