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Old 08-29-2010, 03:24 PM   #1
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Question False Knock readings?

Has anyone had problems with false knock readings on the DURATEC engines?

How critical is the torque on the knock sensor, and has anyone ever cured a problem of "false knock" simply by following a strict process of bolting on the sensor "by the book".

I know there's a torque spec for this on our cars, and I know that this can be a problem in general on any car, just wondering if this is a prominent issue on the DURATEC. Or am I chasing a red herring.....


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Old 08-29-2010, 07:25 PM   #2
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I would love to see a log , that may answer what the issue is , ALL TQ controles should be turned off in the tune

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Old 08-29-2010, 08:44 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1turbofocus View Post
I would love to see a log , that may answer what the issue is , ALL TQ controles should be turned off in the tune

Tom
I'm pretty sure it's due to knock sensor input. I'm looking at the SPK_ADD_KS PIDS, and they are pulling out some serious timing, like over 10 degress, so my final spark can be as low as 5-10 degrees @ 7000RPM, and the HP is way low.

If I reduce the allowed knock retard, the engine wakes right up, but I'm not sure if I'm actually knocking or not, I don't have a knock listener.

One other funny detail, is that for one reason or another, it never detects ANY knock on #1 cylinder, that's another why I'm concerned that it's a false knock input. (I know, it could be the other way around, and it's not picking up actual knock on #1)

If you send me your e-mail, I can send you a log.
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Old 08-30-2010, 07:38 AM   #4
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A dyno is always best , the engine will tell you what it wants better then the sensors , if adding more timing pucks up a lot of TQ then the engine knows best , a hugh mistake made is when 2 deg is added for 1-2 HP , If you add 2 and get a 6-10 TQ gain then your doing something

Back before sensors I would use the dyno and add in timing till no worth while gains were made to TQ and stop then take out 1-2 deg timing

If your tuner has the calibration software he can adjust the sensivity of the knock , if you/he does not I can make them for you but woulf need your tune to do this , there are other things with in the tune that could cause this as well

PM sent with email

Tom

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Old 08-30-2010, 08:08 AM   #5
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I had some knock going on with my engine. I replaced the plugs and that fixed it. You might want to add that to the list and check to see if your plugs are still good or not.
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Old 08-30-2010, 11:45 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mave View Post
I had some knock going on with my engine. I replaced the plugs and that fixed it. You might want to add that to the list and check to see if your plugs are still good or not.
thanks for the idea, but I'm running a fresh set of autolite 103's (they did not have 104's in stock)
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213 whp / 160 wtq D23 NA with stock intake and TB.

Inventor of "The $0 Thunder Throttle" & "Focuzdax-7" brake swap.
I like the same qualities in women and pistons; Lightweight, fast, and with the smallest skirts possible...
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Old 08-30-2010, 11:54 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1turbofocus View Post
A dyno is always best , the engine will tell you what it wants better then the sensors , if adding more timing pucks up a lot of TQ then the engine knows best , a hugh mistake made is when 2 deg is added for 1-2 HP , If you add 2 and get a 6-10 TQ gain then your doing something

Back before sensors I would use the dyno and add in timing till no worth while gains were made to TQ and stop then take out 1-2 deg timing

If your tuner has the calibration software he can adjust the sensivity of the knock , if you/he does not I can make them for you but woulf need your tune to do this , there are other things with in the tune that could cause this as well

PM sent with email

Tom
Tom

Thanks, that agrees with what the shop owner was suggesting when were were discussing my spark/power dilemmas. He was just not quite sure how far to go with this motor, as most of his work is on turbo bimmers and other FI cars.

I do have access to the advanced KS settings and first tried reducing cylinder sensitivity a little bit, later simply limiting the knock retard to only 2 degress, and yes we saw a huge jump in power.

But it was late in the day, and the "meter was running" on the dyno time, so I had to be satisfied with that result. I'm resonably confident that this motor can put 215 to the wheels, but I do want to work on getting a little stronger torque curve. I think my next move will be to advance the exhaust cam to reduce overlap by a few degrees.

I'll check for your PM so I can send you the datalogging file.
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213 whp / 160 wtq D23 NA with stock intake and TB.

Inventor of "The $0 Thunder Throttle" & "Focuzdax-7" brake swap.
I like the same qualities in women and pistons; Lightweight, fast, and with the smallest skirts possible...
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