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Old 06-28-2009, 01:16 PM   #1
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new header / need a tune?

i recently installed my f2 header and ever since i reset the ecu for the mechanical cel fix it has been having o2 sensor problems when trying to stay at a constant speed. after trying different things i think i will just need a tune.

i've checked the primary o2 sensor on the header and cleaned it but that did nothing. i haven't done anything to the second because it doesnt have anything to do with the engine... right?

when i'm trying to stay a constant speed it feels like the engine is misfiring sort of like an o2 sensor isn't plugged in. but this does not happpen when just goig up through the gears in daily driving. just constant speeds.
the only thing that i could think is wrong is the second o2 sensor... but i don't know if that has anyhing to do with the motor.

the tune is my last resort and if i need to i guess i will.
thanks in advance for the help :)


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Old 06-28-2009, 07:30 PM   #2
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I sell them for 399.00 and 20.00 for shipping and you get free updates as you add more mods or want more changes

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Old 06-28-2009, 10:23 PM   #3
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The second O2, which goes into the cat on the factory header, isn't technically an O2, but more of a Catalic temp sensor. It shouldn't affect your engine performance. It sounds to me like the engine is running too lean when it goes closed loop at level speeds. Do you have a laptop with livelink and a wideband? If so, try doing some datalogs for EGTs, IATs, Maf Volts, spark advance, and your wideband AFR. Record while going through regular gears around town and also leveled off on the highway. This should give you and your tuner (Tom) an idea what is going on. More than likely, the stock is freaking out to the fact that the engine is actually breathing! lol
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Old 06-28-2009, 10:42 PM   #4
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ok. thanks. the thing is i don't have a wideband, or livelink. and money is kinda short right now.
could this have any effect on my engine down the line? if i leave it how it is now i mean. if it will i guess ill need to get a tune and wideband...
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Old 06-29-2009, 07:04 AM   #5
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I wouldn't run it too hard, just in case. It could be something as simple as a shorted wire or it could be the engine running way lean and risking detonation. A tune I almost guarantee will correct it if it is running too lean, since the factory tune is like Holy shit, I don't have asthma anymore, what do I do??!! OMGWTFBBQ!!! lol
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Old 06-29-2009, 10:12 AM   #6
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ok.. yeah i might just take out the header till i can afford a tune. it started stalling out easily too though. like pulling into a parkign spot
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Old 06-30-2009, 08:48 PM   #7
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Read up on this link about O2 sensors.

http://www.aa1car.com/library/o2sensor.htm

As long as the cat is in place...Start looking into wiring and clean the second O2 sensor.

Check the voltage with an ohm meter to see if your reading from .1v to .9v.

Read up and test a few things...then you can look into a tune if needed.
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Old 07-02-2009, 02:31 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by Bouncy View Post
Check the voltage with an ohm meter to see if your reading from .1v to .9v.
It is impossible to read voltage with an ohm meter. Ohm meters measure resistance. If you try and read voltage with an ohm meter it will blow the fuse.

Where should he place the leads when he uses the volt meter? Negative? Positive?
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Old 07-02-2009, 08:21 PM   #9
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It is impossible to read voltage with an ohm meter. Ohm meters measure resistance. If you try and read voltage with an ohm meter it will blow the fuse.

Where should he place the leads when he uses the volt meter? Negative? Positive?
And sorry I said the word OHM...I should have said DVM to be more correct. The Digital VOLT Ohm Meter. Which I have in the shop and normally refer to it as an Ohm Meter to my buddy who is an Electrical Engineer. And not once has he ever corrected me or brought me the wrong tool.


Here is the information while installed...

Testing O2 sensors that are installed

The engine must first be fully warm. If you have a defective thermostat, this test may not be possible due to a minimum temperature required for closed loop operation. Attach the positive lead of a high impedence DC voltmeter to the Oxygen sensor output wire. This wire should remain attached to the computer. You will have to back probe the connection or use a jumper wire to get access. The negative lead should be attached to a good clean ground on the engine block or accessory bracket. Cheap voltmeters will not give accurate results because they load down the circuit and absorb the voltage that they are attempting to measure. A acceptable value is 1,000,000 ohms/volt or more on the DC voltage. Most (if not all) digital voltmeters meet this need. Few (if any) non-powered analog (needle style) voltmeters do. Check the specs for your meter to find out. Set your meter to look for 1 volt DC. Many late model cars use a heated O2 sensor. These have either two or three wires instead of one. Heated sensors will have 12 volts on one lead, ground on the other, and the sensor signal on the third. If you have two or three wires, use a 15 or higher volt scale on the meter until you know which is the sensor output wire. When you turn the key on, do not start the engine. You should see a change in voltage on the meter in most late model cars. If not, check your connections. Next, check your leads to make sure you won't wrap up any wires in the belts, etc. then start the engine. You should run the engine above 2000 rpm for two minutes to warm the O2 sensor and try to get into closed loop. Closed loop operation is indicated by the sensor showing several cross counts per second. It may help to rev the engine between idle and about 3000 rpm several times. The computer recognizes the sensor as hot and active once there are several cross counts. You are looking for voltage to go above and below 0.45 volts. If you see less than 0.2 and more than 0.7 volts and the value changes rapidly, you are through, your sensor is good. If not, is it steady high (> 0.45) near 0.45 or steady low (< 0.45). If the voltage is near the middle, you may not be hot yet. Run the engine above 2000 rpm again. If the reading is steady low, add richness by partially closing the choke or adding some propane through the air intake. Be very careful if you work with any extra gasoline, you can easily be burned or have an explosion. If the voltage now rises above 0.7 to 0.9, and you can change it at will by changing the extra fuel, the O2 sensor is usually good. If the voltage is steady high, create a vacuum leak. Try pulling the PCV valve out of it's hose and letting air enter. You can also use the power brake vacuum supply hose. If this drives the voltage to 0.2 to 0.3 or less and you can control it at will by opening and closing the vacuum leak, the sensor is usually good. If you are not able to make a change either way, stop the engine, unhook the sensor wire from the computer harness, and reattach your voltmeter to the sensor output wire. Repeat the rich and lean steps. If you can't get the sensor voltage to change, and you have a good sensor and ground connection, try heating it once more. Repeat the rich and lean steps. If still no voltage or fixed voltage, you have a bad sensor. If you are not getting a voltage and the car has been running rich lately, the sensor may be carbon fouled. It is sometimes possible to clean a sensor in the car. Do this by unplugging the sensor harness, warming up the engine, and creating a lean condition at about 2000 rpm for 1 or 2 minutes. Create a big enough vacuum leak so that the engine begins to slow down. The extra heat will clean it off if possible. If not, it was dead anyway, no loss. In either case, fix the cause of the rich mixture and retest. If you don't, the new sensor will fail.



Here is the info for bench testing.

Testing O2 sensors on the workbench.

Use a high impedence DC voltmeter as above. Clamp the sensor in a vice, or use a plier or vice-grip to hold it. Clamp your negative voltmeter lead to the case, and the positive to the output wire. Use a propane torch set to high and the inner blue flame tip to heat the fluted or perforated area of the sensor. You should see a DC voltage of at least 0.6 within 20 seconds. If not, most likely cause is open circuit internally or lead fouling. If OK so far, remove from flame. You should see a drop to under 0.1 volt within 4 seconds. If not likely silicone fouled. If still OK, heat for two full minutes and watch for drops in voltage. Sometimes, the internal connections will open up under heat. This is the same a loose wire and is a failure. If the sensor is OK at this point, and will switch from high to low quickly as you move the flame, the sensor is good. Bear in mind that good or bad is relative, with port fuel injection needing faster information than carbureted systems. ANY O2 sensor that will generate 0.9 volts or more when heated, show 0.1 volts or less within one second of flame removal, AND pass the two minute heat test is good regardless of age. When replacing a sensor, don't miss the opportunity to use the test above on the replacement. This will calibrate your evaluation skills and save you money in the future. There is almost always *no* benefit in replacing an oxygen sensor that will pass the test in the first line of this paragraph.
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Old 07-02-2009, 08:41 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bouncy View Post
And sorry I said the word OHM...I should have said DVM to be more correct. The Digital VOLT Ohm Meter. Which I have in the shop and normally refer to it as an Ohm Meter to my buddy who is an Electrical Engineer. And not once has he ever corrected me or brought me the wrong tool.
Great instructions!

And he has never corrected you because he is an engineer and expects you to have no idea what you are talking about
Engineers...think they are so smart. Hahaha, just kidding...his field is a TAD different from mine though. I am in electronics. And my correction wasn't personal. I just wanted to make sure that OP doesn't go out and waste his money on an Ohm meter.
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