Ugh... I hate the ST Brakes - Ford Focus Forum, Ford Focus ST Forum, Ford Focus RS Forum
Ford Focus Forum
HomeContact UsAbout UsGalleryDiscussion ForumsMarketplace


Go Back   Ford Focus Forum, Ford Focus ST Forum, Ford Focus RS Forum > Ford Focus ST > Focus ST

Focus ST The place to chat about general questions, window tinting, exterior body, interior and lighting upgrades for the MK3 2013-Current Focus ST.

Search This Forum | Image Search | Advanced Search    
FocusFest

Like Tree2Likes
Reply




 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 02-10-2017, 11:36 PM   #1
Focus Enthusiast
 
MK3 ST3's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
Fan#: 337738
Location: Troy & Dearborn, MI
What I Drive: 2013 Focus ST, 2016 Corvette Z51

Posts: 304
Points 301, Level 6
Points: 301, Level: 6 Points: 301, Level: 6 Points: 301, Level: 6
Level Up 2% Completed
Level up: 2% Level up: 2% Level up: 2%
Forum Activity 14%
Activity: 14% Activity: 14% Activity: 14%
FF Reputation: 6 MK3 ST3 Good Standing Member
Buy-Sell-Trade Rating: (0)
Ugh... I hate the ST Brakes

So felt a strange vibration the past week on the car between 35-45 MPH, and it concerned me because in that range is usually the 2nd order harmonic for the wheels. 2nd order harmonics usually are caused by uneven rotors or some other sort of brake problem. So I inspect the pads from the outside, everything seems fine.

Today I decide to take apart my drivers side front brake. I remove the caliper bolts and slide the caliper off to have the inner pad disintegrate on me. It had delaminated from the pad backing. It was also worn significantly more than the front (1/8 of an inch versus a 1/4 of an inch). Needless to say the wear "holes" on my Carbotech 1521s (this is the second set of pads on the car) on the inner pad were worn away, in fact the pads "attachment screws" had actually begun to wear, grinding grooves into my driver side rotor.

So I take all the wheels off. Passenger side is better, no damage but the inner pad is slightly more worn than the outer, both are closer to my outer driver side pad though. Holes still visible. Rear brakes same story on both sides with the drivers side slightly more worn than the passenger side.

I had the same type of wear last time I changed brakes (at about 25k miles). At that time I also had some small damage to the drivers side caliper dust bellow/boot. It was torn, so I got a new one under warranty. This time I notice a small "melt" on the bellow about the size of a finger nail. Which might contribute to the caliper not retracting due to debris. I need to take off the bellow and inspect it (not doing that tonight).

This would be the second failure of the drivers side in this manner. I used to track the car 2-3 times a year (3-4 session in a day and 15-20 minutes each session). I haven't tracked in in two years, and so the current pads maybe had 3 sessions on them. So I understand my brake pad life would be shorter. But I don't get why the drivers side inner pad wears SO MUCH FASTER than any other pad. I also don't get why that caliper keeps getting heat damage. Further I don't know why my brakes didn't really make any noise. I had a mild low frequency grinding noise under HARD braking, sometimes but not always, otherwise no sound.

I'm trying to get my rotors off, started on the driver side cause that one is toast. But of course at 60k miles they are seized onto hubs. I've soaked them in PB Blaster for about 6 hours now (well 2 hours on the driver side, then once around on the whole car then waited 30 minutes, once on the whole car again, then a 3 hour break and now another round on the whole car). Regardless I've not attempted to remove any of them but the drivers side one, and it will not budge. It's buggered on there quite tight.

For the new stuff, I ordered StopTech slotted rotors (the sport series) so hopefully that alleviates some of the heat which I think is a contributing factor to my drivers side problems. I also am switching to PowerStop Z23 pads after hearing good things about them in regards to dusting and temp. They are also cheaper than the Carbotechs. That stuff won't be here for a week (well some of it arrives early week but the rest late week). However I need to get the bugger rotors off.

So thoughts, comments, similar situations? Looking here just for input. I got a decent deal on all the stuff ($425 shipped) so I'm not in a terrible mood. It's just very inconvenient. My Dad lent me his C-Max Energi for the week so at least I have a car to drive (my Vette being laid up for the winter).

Anyway, I'll be back at it tomorrow....


__________________
Summer DD\Weekend Toy: Arctic White 2016 Chevrolet Corvette Coupe (LT1 Z51)
Winter DD\HPDE Toy: Oxford White 2013 Ford Focus ST Hatchback (MK3 ST3)

Prev: '08 Corvette, '06 GTO, '08 Grand Cherokee, '07 9-3, '04 Malibu, '97 Grand Am, '92 Premier
MK3 ST3 is offline  
    Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 02-11-2017, 06:21 AM   #2
w/ my magic bag
 
felixthecat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Fan#: 80663
Location: The Jet city, WA
What I Drive: '05 Silver Sport Technologies

Posts: 23,095
Points 25,199, Level 95
Points: 25,199, Level: 95 Points: 25,199, Level: 95 Points: 25,199, Level: 95
Level Up 85% Completed
Level up: 85% Level up: 85% Level up: 85%
Forum Activity 100%
Activity: 100% Activity: 100% Activity: 100%
FF Reputation: 81 felixthecat Excellent Standing Member
Buy-Sell-Trade Rating: (0)
It has uses brake based electronic torque vectoring control etvc....Before the st's came out yrs ago, I didn't like what I was reading. Ford kinda fixed the brake issues w/ going w/ a bigger brake setup for about mid '14. If it was me, I'd add a diff & a bbk...Todd at TCE Performance Products has bbk's & use a Quaife diff.....It would of been great if Ford at least offed a trackpac option w/ those two items. Lots of thread write ups from yrs ago('12/'13) about the ST's= 1st thing I did was mention those two items. I'd do both & if not, a bbk at least. I like the mechanical grip that a diff offers....including v/8 rwd's.
__________________
Introduce Mr. Torsen to the mix
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Bigger brakes then you- D23 crew- D-Tech- Sedan Revolution= #131
felixthecat is offline  
    Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 02-11-2017, 09:38 AM   #3
Old Phart
 
sailor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Fan#: 57268
Location: Lockport, NY
What I Drive: 2004 Pitch Black ZTS 2.3 5spd.

Posts: 43,319
Points 31,670, Level 100
Points: 31,670, Level: 100 Points: 31,670, Level: 100 Points: 31,670, Level: 100
Level Up 0% Completed
Level up: 0% Level up: 0% Level up: 0%
Forum Activity 100%
Activity: 100% Activity: 100% Activity: 100%
FF Reputation: 134 sailor Excellent Standing Member sailor Excellent Standing Member
Buy-Sell-Trade Rating: (0)
Track days can cook brakes, and it sounds like your driver's side caliper may have gotten crud in it twice now - also need to check the sliders on that side.

As Felix mentions, the traction control/torque vectoring aids in cooking the ST ones faster than average at the track. I've seen cars without those added loads burn the dust boots even when track pads were used up front - things can get hot!

For the brake discs, you're in MI. Assuming you use it all year, corrosion is an issue and never seize is needed at the wheel to hub junction. Otherwise you end up with aluminum corroded to the iron, locking the disc on the hub even after you beat the wheel off.

Scrape the joint between disc & hub until you can see the break line between parts, and use penetrating oil as mentioned there to help. Prob. will require some good whacks on the brake disc between the wheel studs to help break it loose.

Yes, even though that's iron on iron hitting straight in there can help the disc bounce free of the hub.
__________________
"Rubber Side Down"

S.R. #275
Focus Takeover #003 / Tarbo Fan #003
sailor is offline  
    Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-11-2017, 10:55 AM   #4
Focus Fanatic
 
RonMaiden's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Fan#: 99230
Location: Littleton, CO
What I Drive: 2012 Candy red SE 5spd

Posts: 5,495
Points 5,602, Level 48
Points: 5,602, Level: 48 Points: 5,602, Level: 48 Points: 5,602, Level: 48
Level Up 26% Completed
Level up: 26% Level up: 26% Level up: 26%
Forum Activity 12%
Activity: 12% Activity: 12% Activity: 12%
FF Reputation: 9 RonMaiden Good Standing Member
Buy-Sell-Trade Rating: (0)
Upgrade the brakes as the stock ST brakes have been roasted during tests by more than a couple mainstream car rags while the competition's drove home.
felixthecat likes this.
__________________
'12 Focus Red Candy SE Sport 5 spd
'99 Toyota 4Runner Sport
'11 Subaru WRX STI Hatch
RonMaiden is offline  
    Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 02-11-2017, 11:52 AM   #5
Focus Enthusiast
 
MK3 ST3's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
Fan#: 337738
Location: Troy & Dearborn, MI
What I Drive: 2013 Focus ST, 2016 Corvette Z51

Posts: 304
Points 301, Level 6
Points: 301, Level: 6 Points: 301, Level: 6 Points: 301, Level: 6
Level Up 2% Completed
Level up: 2% Level up: 2% Level up: 2%
Forum Activity 14%
Activity: 14% Activity: 14% Activity: 14%
FF Reputation: 6 MK3 ST3 Good Standing Member
Buy-Sell-Trade Rating: (0)
Got the drivers side rotor off. PB Blaster is my friend, as is the metallic hammer on the hat face. I'm planning on using some anti-seize when I put the new rotors on. The Stoptechs should be better than the stock rotors, especially because they are slotted (so heat should dissipate better). Now to get the other three rotors off.

In regards to some of the suggestions. I don't track the car enough anymore to do a diff upgrade, for the cost of that I can replace the brakes 2-3 times (all new pads and rotors). Mostly because the labor to have a diff done is another $500 on top of the $1000 for the unit. Personally I think diff is overkill unless you track it often. All new pads and rotors set me back only $425, which is a steal. The new pads even come with all new sliders and clips, so I'm replacing those as well.

I don't know what you guys mean by a BBK, not familiar with that acronym; unless you mean big brake kit, which again is overkill for the amount of track time I do. Those require new wheels, and cost a fortune even without. The car is 95% daily driven, and 5% track use at most. I do drive it year round, actually I mostly drive it in the winter, so I get that my rotors seized up due to water, salt, and corrosion.

I'm aware of the torque vectoring, but 3 track days at the beginning of pad life should not have done this, in my opinion. My original brakes I assumed this was the case as I did track it much more back then. I'm worried the torque vectoring is too aggressive during normal driving. Because that's mostly what I do.
__________________
Summer DD\Weekend Toy: Arctic White 2016 Chevrolet Corvette Coupe (LT1 Z51)
Winter DD\HPDE Toy: Oxford White 2013 Ford Focus ST Hatchback (MK3 ST3)

Prev: '08 Corvette, '06 GTO, '08 Grand Cherokee, '07 9-3, '04 Malibu, '97 Grand Am, '92 Premier
MK3 ST3 is offline  
    Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 02-11-2017, 04:30 PM   #6
Focus Enthusiast
 
MK3 ST3's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
Fan#: 337738
Location: Troy & Dearborn, MI
What I Drive: 2013 Focus ST, 2016 Corvette Z51

Posts: 304
Points 301, Level 6
Points: 301, Level: 6 Points: 301, Level: 6 Points: 301, Level: 6
Level Up 2% Completed
Level up: 2% Level up: 2% Level up: 2%
Forum Activity 14%
Activity: 14% Activity: 14% Activity: 14%
FF Reputation: 6 MK3 ST3 Good Standing Member
Buy-Sell-Trade Rating: (0)
Good news. Got all 4 rotors off. The other 3 were in decent condition, but into the garbage they go. New stuff arrives next week. Until then the car sits up on blocks, no rotors or pads.

I did get the calipers pushed in, and tomorrow I'll probably clean the hub faces (waiting for them to dry out, they are soaked in PB Blaster). I got anti-seize to put between the hub face and the rotor hats. So I'm pretty much all set to put the car back together.

Need to figure out if I can change the drivers side dust boot without removing the caliper from the car, as it does have a small tear and "melt spot" in it where it looks like it overheated. I'm in no mood to remove the caliper and bleed the brake system though.
__________________
Summer DD\Weekend Toy: Arctic White 2016 Chevrolet Corvette Coupe (LT1 Z51)
Winter DD\HPDE Toy: Oxford White 2013 Ford Focus ST Hatchback (MK3 ST3)

Prev: '08 Corvette, '06 GTO, '08 Grand Cherokee, '07 9-3, '04 Malibu, '97 Grand Am, '92 Premier
MK3 ST3 is offline  
    Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 02-11-2017, 06:52 PM   #7
Old Phart
 
sailor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Fan#: 57268
Location: Lockport, NY
What I Drive: 2004 Pitch Black ZTS 2.3 5spd.

Posts: 43,319
Points 31,670, Level 100
Points: 31,670, Level: 100 Points: 31,670, Level: 100 Points: 31,670, Level: 100
Level Up 0% Completed
Level up: 0% Level up: 0% Level up: 0%
Forum Activity 100%
Activity: 100% Activity: 100% Activity: 100%
FF Reputation: 134 sailor Excellent Standing Member sailor Excellent Standing Member
Buy-Sell-Trade Rating: (0)
I'm sure you understand the caliper, with any sticking prob. due to crap between the square sealing ring & dust boot. Can't see that area fully/clean it out without the caliper coming apart.

If it pushed back in easily & smoothly, you can try to blow out any crap in the small slot area between there & the boot to do the best you can without disassembly - and of course check those slider pins.

I saw boots cooked on my Bud's 944 I helped with track prep on after 1 weekend of track sessions. 20 min. stints at the Glen were enough and they were fresh before that trip. No torque vectoring or other special loads with that car. Not typical for his track sessions, used them more in traffic that year I've gotta assume.

Reg. pads don't stand the load for that car, swapping to track pads in front is essential to avoid cooked pads. You'd need the same I'm sure for similar use again.
__________________
"Rubber Side Down"

S.R. #275
Focus Takeover #003 / Tarbo Fan #003
sailor is offline  
    Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 02-11-2017, 07:16 PM   #8
Focus Enthusiast
 
MK3 ST3's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
Fan#: 337738
Location: Troy & Dearborn, MI
What I Drive: 2013 Focus ST, 2016 Corvette Z51

Posts: 304
Points 301, Level 6
Points: 301, Level: 6 Points: 301, Level: 6 Points: 301, Level: 6
Level Up 2% Completed
Level up: 2% Level up: 2% Level up: 2%
Forum Activity 14%
Activity: 14% Activity: 14% Activity: 14%
FF Reputation: 6 MK3 ST3 Good Standing Member
Buy-Sell-Trade Rating: (0)
It went back in smoothly and easily. I even checked the surface, it's clean (since the boot has the pinch it doesn't seal tightly around the lip, so I could run my pinky around it).

Obviously at any point debris could get in. But at this point it seems fine. I'm tempted to remove the current boot and just replace it, but I need to wait till I get the new one to make sure it doesn't have any parts that requires the caliper to be fully removed.

From what I can gather online, the inner seal needs the caliper piston removed, but the dust boot should not need the piston removed.
__________________
Summer DD\Weekend Toy: Arctic White 2016 Chevrolet Corvette Coupe (LT1 Z51)
Winter DD\HPDE Toy: Oxford White 2013 Ford Focus ST Hatchback (MK3 ST3)

Prev: '08 Corvette, '06 GTO, '08 Grand Cherokee, '07 9-3, '04 Malibu, '97 Grand Am, '92 Premier
MK3 ST3 is offline  
    Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 02-11-2017, 07:32 PM   #9
Old Phart
 
sailor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Fan#: 57268
Location: Lockport, NY
What I Drive: 2004 Pitch Black ZTS 2.3 5spd.

Posts: 43,319
Points 31,670, Level 100
Points: 31,670, Level: 100 Points: 31,670, Level: 100 Points: 31,670, Level: 100
Level Up 0% Completed
Level up: 0% Level up: 0% Level up: 0%
Forum Activity 100%
Activity: 100% Activity: 100% Activity: 100%
FF Reputation: 134 sailor Excellent Standing Member sailor Excellent Standing Member
Buy-Sell-Trade Rating: (0)
Dust boot typically needs the piston out at least a bit for easy installation, it varies. Some have to be out a fair bit for boot replacement with the piston sitting inside the bore when fully retracted.

It's the gap between inner seal & the end of the bore that can accumulate crap/corrosion most, that's the section I was mentioning for blowing out/inspecting the slot as well as you can when the boot is off.
__________________
"Rubber Side Down"

S.R. #275
Focus Takeover #003 / Tarbo Fan #003
sailor is offline  
    Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 02-12-2017, 08:31 AM   #10
w/ my magic bag
 
felixthecat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Fan#: 80663
Location: The Jet city, WA
What I Drive: '05 Silver Sport Technologies

Posts: 23,095
Points 25,199, Level 95
Points: 25,199, Level: 95 Points: 25,199, Level: 95 Points: 25,199, Level: 95
Level Up 85% Completed
Level up: 85% Level up: 85% Level up: 85%
Forum Activity 100%
Activity: 100% Activity: 100% Activity: 100%
FF Reputation: 81 felixthecat Excellent Standing Member
Buy-Sell-Trade Rating: (0)
I would of done the April '14+ brake up grade at least.
__________________
Introduce Mr. Torsen to the mix
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Bigger brakes then you- D23 crew- D-Tech- Sedan Revolution= #131
felixthecat is offline  
    Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Reply

Bookmarks & Social Networks

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the Ford Focus Forum, Ford Focus ST Forum, Ford Focus RS Forum forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:
What I Drive
Year, color, and model of your car. Example: 2003 Pitch Black ZX3
Name
Your real name.
City
State
Country
Insurance
Please select your insurance company (Optional)

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.



Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 12:50 PM.


Copyright 2002-2015 FocusFanatics.com. All Rights Reserved : Privacy Policy : Advertise Information

Focus Fanatics Ford Focus Forum offers many fun ways for you to engage with other Ford Focus Owners from across the world. Whether it be about the aftermarket performance modifications, technical how-to's, European tuned suspension or awesome fuel economy similar to the Mazda CX-3, Audi S3, Mazda MX-5 Miata and Acura TLX. You can find all Ford Focus, Focus ST and Focus RS related information here. Join our Ford Focus discussion forums and chat with local Focus enthusiasts in your area. If you own other makes have a look at Challenger Hellcat Forum, Charger Hellcat Forum, Cadillac ATS-V Forum, Cadillac CTS-V Forum, Lexus RC-F Forum, Lexus GS-F Forum, Mercedes GLA Forum, Mercedes GLE Forum and Volvo XC90 Forum.




 

Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.1