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Old 06-04-2015, 08:37 AM   #1
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Addressing LSPI for Highway Loads Using ATR or your Pro-Tuner

I made this post in another forum, but I thought it could be helpful for those that may not have seen it there. Cylinder 4 has been known to have issues and many of those that have had failures state that they were just cruising along when it happened-not racing. Because LSPI is a dire concern for turbocharged DI engines, I just happened to notice the conditions it was occurring on my car and addressed it this way. Even though this is somewhat of a band-aid for the issue that we don't fully understand yet (or maybe the issue itself?), this is the process that I used to move my engine into a safer operating area.

For right now, those with AP3's and ATR/pro-tunes should take the nearest opportunity to get on the highway/interstate and evaluate to see if there is a problem with their vehicle in those conditions. Someone with better experience can clarify if they need doesn't data logged, but this is how I addressed it on my car with ATR-

Find a road with average elevation changes (rolling hills, etc) that's relatively nearby.

Get the car to operating temps.

Set cruise control for one log at 55mph in sixth gear and one log at 65mph. This will isolate the 2k and 2.5k rpm columns of the tables we'll be making adjustments in.

Log these parameters-
Engine RPM
HDFX Weighted (1-15)
Ignition timing 1-4
Load
Timing base
Timing ceiling

I think that was it. The majority of HDFX won't be needed, most likely only tables 6 and 7, but I generally log them all. If you already know that a certain cylinder is weaker you can log its ignition corrections as well, but it's mostly a moot point and only helps you find the areas quicker in the data. For monitors I watch my load and ignition correction on my weak cylinder.

Start your log when the load is low (going downhill) or constant (flat road), a short ways before the incline. Stop your log once you've reached the top of the hill and your correction is back to zero.

When looking at your logs, watch for the associated loads that correspond with the appropriate Borderline Table (dictated by your HDFX weighted percentage), which will be .4, .5, .6, .8, and 1 (a total of 10 values altogether for both rpm ranges). I find the appropriate load and then scroll to the ignition timing for the four cylinders and make my adjustment based on the lowest. If my base timing base is 23 degrees and my cylinder four was only able to get 21, I lower the base to whatever my cylinder got (in this example I remove 2 degrees) and halve the correction (1 degree) for the surrounding values. Look at all related load values and the associated timing that you were able to achieve (on both logs) before making changes because all of the tables are next to each other so some changes will be based on the full correction of one log versus the half correction of the other.

Once you've made your changes, re-log and verify that they work. If not, repeat the process. Step-down the timing in any increment that you are comfortable with and make sure that your changes are based on the increasing-load part of the log-not the decreasing.

Between those two rpm ranges you (or your tuner) should be able to get the associated tables to where you need them. I also lowered my knock sensor max timing advance to 2 degrees (personal preference) and brought the base down in those areas to the point that my cylinder 4 wouldn't advance into knock. I'm ok with sacrificing a couple degrees of timing and power for the sake of engine longevity in those areas of those tables.


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Last edited by dyn085; 06-04-2015 at 10:30 AM.
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Old 06-22-2015, 08:07 PM   #2
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I have never heard of Low Speed Pre-Ignition before so looked it up. Pretty interesting stuff:

http://pceo.com/GDI_and_Turbocharging_Rinek

Something to consider with those thinking of maybe one day charging their n/a mk3.

Edit: Interesting to note in this article that LSPI seems to occur between roughly 2000 and 2500rpm and is under the conditions with very little load and the zone where economy is best. New engine tech that has some technical challenges still to be understood and overcome.
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Last edited by Scougar; 06-23-2015 at 08:04 AM.
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Old 06-23-2015, 11:11 PM   #3
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Article mentions low speed & HIGH load/Cylinder pressures for LSPI, some variance in the descriptions here.
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Old 06-24-2015, 06:15 AM   #4
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Basically, think of it as a concern while on cruise-control at highway/interstate speeds (low rpm, high gear). You want to pass a car, so instead of downshifting out of sixth you simply roll into more boost. Magic happens and you're on the side of the road.

A lot of the community understands that sixth is not a passing gear, so (for the most part) that is less of a concern. A lot of members that lost engines claimed that they were simply cruising down the interstate when it happened. When I made my last interstate trip I decided to watch all four ignition corrections just in case and sure enough, I was seeing a lot of knock registering-but it was occurring as load was transitioning while going over an overpass.

As I looked into the borderline tables, there is a large change in timing between the .6 and .8 load cells, and all of my knock was occurring at around .7 load on the gauge. In closing that gap I was able to remove the knock from those areas of the tune. And obviously I'm not talking about full-blown knock, but this is a situation that ST owners want to be as far away as possible from.

Granted, there are a lot of other elements that also factor into this such as using a good oil with the correct OCI, not beating on the car constantly, etc., but the timing strategy is something worth evaluating as well.
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