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Old 06-01-2007, 07:12 PM   #1
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Turbo Fuel Problems

Hi all and Tom,

I have a full Focus-Power kit tuned with a chipmaster diablosport. It ran out of fuel at about 13 psi and that is where it is set. Since then I have put in the car an 03 fuel pump/tank and I have 50 lb injectors to swap out for the Lucas 32 lbs in there now. This is a datalog I just took today. I am shooting for 25-30 PSI with a built 8:1 CR engine. BTW I cant afford a Belle Boost a pump and if I could Id rather get a J&S anways ;).

How does this datalog look? Any observations that I missed?







This is my theory. Because the fuel injectors look maxed out(correct?) the fuel pressure drops due to the injectors being open 100%. With the much bigger injectors they will have to open less therefore giving more resistance and raising back up the fuel pressure. Do you guys think ill have problems when I get a retune? I am trying to plan this ahead as I have to drive 6 hours each way to see Randy(Im in upstate NY). Or is this just some other problem. Notice when the injectors/throttle closes the fuel pressure raises to ~75 psi supporting my theory.

Also in general how does the log look? The MAF is a pro M in toms blow through housing so it should be big enough yes? Any other observations? Anything else you guys would like to see to check?

Any thoughts Tom?

Thank you!
Steve


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Old 06-03-2007, 12:06 AM   #2
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I hate to tell you... but if you're going to run 25+psi then you're going to need to go to a return style system.
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Old 06-03-2007, 09:05 AM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JarJarBlinks View Post
Hi all and Tom,



This is my theory. Because the fuel injectors look maxed out(correct?) the fuel pressure drops due to the injectors being open 100%. With the much bigger injectors they will have to open less therefore giving more resistance and raising back up the fuel pressure. Do you guys think ill have problems when I get a retune? I am trying to plan this ahead as I have to drive 6 hours each way to see Randy(Im in upstate NY). Or is this just some other problem. Notice when the injectors/throttle closes the fuel pressure raises to ~75 psi supporting my theory.

Also in general how does the log look? The MAF is a pro M in toms blow through housing so it should be big enough yes? Any other observations? Anything else you guys would like to see to check?

Any thoughts Tom?

Thank you!
Steve
First you have far to many things in you log list , loose some of them and it will log faster , A lot of stuff your logging is a waste

You only went to 4800 so its hard to say what your MAF is going to go to and you didnt say what the boost was ,but for the boost you want to go to and sence your MAF will max at about 980 counts your about through and need a MAF ia

As for the fuel psi ideally you want to see a 1 to 1 ratio with boost and fuel psi so as a base fuel of 40psi and 12 psi boost you "should" have 52psi of fuel psi , This now works in the SVT software but havent got it to work in the ZX3 yet but its being worked on

The injectors being close to being maxed out (you are not) has nothing to do with how the fuel Psi responds

You realy got a lot of help on the other board didnt you ?

Tom
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Old 06-05-2007, 08:56 PM   #4
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Yes Tom I got alot of help on the other board. I definately learned alot from them.

The car will be tuned before it gets a return fuel system. Boost is 13 psi now. I know I will run out of fuel w/o a return setup/BAP but they are saying that the turbo will max out before that around 275 hp @ 10:1 cr. Is this true?

I didnt know that the more I logged the slower it would be. What would you like me to log and also I will run it up to the redline.

Why is the fuel pressure duty cycle look like it does with all the jagged instead of a smoother line?

Thank you for your input, Tom, your words always seem to be the smartest.
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Old 06-20-2007, 01:37 PM   #5
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Quoted from the other board:
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

We put the car on the dyno yesterday. Took a while to figure out the bleeder valve boost controller and didnt work that well. I am definately going to try this ball bearing spring controller that arrived a day lite.

The maf was rotated wrong due to the bend of the charge piping so we rotated it and that took care of the MAF counts also the load was way off.

Ran it up to 20 psi a few times she ran great but once we sorted the boost controller out we settled for 15 psi. It was running 100% fuel duty cycle at 6200 rpms w/ 60 lb injectors and an 03 fuel tank/pump. Im sold on the boostapump it is in my future.

As we were sorting out the final details for 15 psi we blow an oil seal on the turbo. Really bad. Undrivable. It dumped about a quart of oil into the exhaust there was even some on top of the exhaust housing! Ive never seen a car smoke so bad in my life. The shaft had about an inch of side to side play and woudnt spin freely. The car was pumping oil into the ehxuast.

I had to make it home in this car. We plugged the oil line, made a short ram with the MAF and a cone filter, and locked the turbo from spinning with a piece of wood per Toms suggestions. I barely made it home 360 miles the car didnt start 75% of the time and it was just luck getting it to start. Now I am stuck already in debt 200 dollars over this and I need to somthing fast to fix this turbo. The car is my daily driver :/

I could send the turbo out to get fixed. Estimates start online for 400 dollars and im sure there would be more than the basic to just replace.

I could do a turbo rebuild myself. I know it would have to be balanced but I am very mechanically inclined. I tried dissamebling the turbo once(never trying to take the wheels off to lose balance) but I couldnt get the exhaust housing loose. I even put a hole in the compressor housing trying to pry with it (fixed with some JB weld).

Buying a new turbo. I would want the exact same one new randy said it would be 800 dollars. Thats alot of money more than I paid for the engine! If I bought somthing off focaljet I would be loosing HP/great spool or have different flanges on it and I would need a new downpipe and charge piping probably. Not good :-(

Any tips? It would be great if I could find a turbo rebuilder that could do it for 300 shipped both ways. That would make my life so much easier :-/

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I dunno I pulled the turbo apart today and there are gouges on the back of the exhaust wheel plus the compressor wheel is also preety dinged up. There is a small hairline crack in the exhaust housing also. It just looks preety impossible to rebuild.

I guess I need a new turbo. Price is key I cant spend much money on this. If I could find one for $500 that would be awesome Ray said he can get me a new one for $800.

I dont know if I should just sell the car or try to fix it. I mean I have replaced everything in the car and now everything I fix feels like it should be the last thing for a while but it never stops.

3 poly engine mounts, built forged engine, new stock head, oil pump, STG 5 clutch, flywheel, LSD, new tranny, flex pipe, catback exhaust, boost controller, 500 dollars in gauges, hundreds in bolts and sensors, svt brakes, wheels, tires, SVT suspension kit, fuel injectors, MAF, intercooler and charge piping($1000), downpipe/manifold, new stock intake manifold, short shift kit, new computer due to PATS lock($400), thousands on tuning a chipmaster diablosport, etc, etc, etc. Its hard to drop 500 dollars at McNews and getting a blown turbo and possibly a burnt valve out of it.

I dunno :/ Im just a college student working full time also im not rich. Ive been doing this for 2 years with this car and the money never stops. I just want this car to be done. Is going fast always like this or would I have more fun with somthing like an FD or a SBC? Is it really worth dumping 15k into this 5k car? Someone please respond and tell me its worth it ;-) I love the focus so much its just very hard sometimes.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Also when I was at McNews one of the guys noticed that my exhaust "burbled" at idle. He said that they used to be able to tell if a car had a burnt valve if it did that sound and it sucked a little bit of air back into the exhaust. You could tell by holding a dollar bill in front of the exhaust tip and see if it sucks it into the exhaust. Well I used a shop towel and it does suck a little back in when it burbles. It does it about every 3-4 seconds. Compression is good and I thought the car has just been doing this for a while. Anyone elses car do this? Do I have another problem also? :-(
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