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Old 02-21-2016, 06:43 PM   #1
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Cold misfiring/hesitation - intake valve buildup?

I have cold misfiring and hesitation for at least the first 5-10 minutes after a cold start and I believe my mpg is a little low.

Came across this about other Ford 4 cyl's with direct injection:
https://youtu.be/nK2eXdaydqI

Also seems to happen on ST:
https://youtu.be/lFnFIuSwdbU

Someone here recently posted they had intake buildup in a thread about PCV valves. Didn't have photos.

I bought this 2013 with about 7k miles a year ago (so it wasn't driven often before I got it) and noticed the problem shortly after. That is why I started experimenting with premium gas and e85 for a while which seemed to help at the time, but now I don't notice any improvements with them.

I took it to the dealer a few months ago and all they did was claim to have updated the ECU. It did not fix the issue. I think it's pretty ridiculous that a essentially new car runs this poorly. It should run perfectly no matter the temperature, etc. (heck I've had 20yr old cars with 230k miles that ran better than this)

So does anyone have any ammunition I can go to the dealer with in addition to the above links?

Thanks!



Last edited by savethemanuals; 02-23-2016 at 01:47 PM.
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Old 02-22-2016, 12:13 PM   #2
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I just did a Turbo install on a 2015 with less then 2300 miles on it and it already had oil in the intake and black on the intake runners

I know why they use a PCV and feed the valve cover to the intake but it needs to be changed by Ford because the engine technology has far surpassed the the 1960`s PCV system

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Old 02-22-2016, 05:59 PM   #3
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Did you notice your comparisons are to Ecoboost types and a MkIII with 100k on it?

Problem you aren't happy with starting at ~7k is likely different, since carboned valves to the point of causing troubles hasn't been a reported issue on these yet.


Tom, I know you like just venting to atmosphere for a change from stock. What engine tech has changed to make a PCV type system not necessary since the 60's? I've seen different versions that are supposed to separate oil out better, but no changes other than that & the addition of more airflow from the intake vent.
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Old 02-22-2016, 09:04 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by savethemanuals View Post
I have cold misfiring and hesitation for at least the first 5-10 minutes after a cold start and I believe my mpg is a little low.

Came across this about other Ford 4 cyl's with direct injection:
https://youtu.be/nK2eXdaydqI

Also seems to happen on ST:
https://youtu.be/nK2eXdaydqI

Someone here recently posted they had intake buildup in a thread about PCV valves. Didn't have photos.

I bought this 2013 with about 7k miles a year ago (so it wasn't driven often before I got it) and noticed the problem shortly after. That is why I started experimenting with premium gas and e85 for a while which seemed to help at the time, but now I don't notice any improvements with them.

I took it to the dealer a few months ago and all they did was claim to have updated the ECU. It did not fix the issue. I think it's pretty ridiculous that a essentially new car runs this poorly. It should run perfectly no matter the temperature, etc. (heck I've had 20yr old cars with 230k miles that ran better than this)

So does anyone have any ammunition I can go to the dealer with in addition to the above links?

Thanks!
Dumb question but what is the temperature back in Illinois.....I had to ask 'cause I had a '83 Escort GT w/ fuel injection that just wouldn't start in cold weather....seemed that during cold weather the fuel would end up in the crankcase....the weather was 20 degrees below and didn't have a block heater either.....AND when I moved back to CA from Wy 1 1/2 year later, I had to have my valves redone due to hydrocarbon build up, not allowing the car to get to temp from point A to B.....just my input, not a mechanic! Maybe just letting the car warm up for a least 2-3 minutes might help before taking off.
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Old 02-23-2016, 01:34 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sailor View Post
Did you notice your comparisons are to Ecoboost types and a MkIII with 100k on it?

Problem you aren't happy with starting at ~7k is likely different, since carboned valves to the point of causing troubles hasn't been a reported issue on these yet.


Tom, I know you like just venting to atmosphere for a change from stock. What engine tech has changed to make a PCV type system not necessary since the 60's? I've seen different versions that are supposed to separate oil out better, but no changes other than that & the addition of more airflow from the intake vent.
Yes I did notice. But I also copied one of the links incorrectly. The second for the Focus ST is supposed to be:
https://youtu.be/lFnFIuSwdbU
It has only 25k.

I'm not sure how the "ecoboost" is much of a factor as the problem stems from the PCV and intake design combined with direct injection, which is universal.

The reason I mentioned that the car was likely subject to very short trips with only 7k on it at this time last year was that I think that would greatly accelerate any kid of buildup. We all know short trips are hard on cars

Are you saying the only Gen 3 Focus with proven intake valve buildup is tower2's vehicle? I find that hard to believe he is the only one with carbon buildup given that highway driving is about the easiest scenario for a vehicle to encounter.
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Old 02-23-2016, 01:40 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1turbofocus View Post
I just did a Turbo install on a 2015 with less then 2300 miles on it and it already had oil in the intake and black on the intake runners

I know why they use a PCV and feed the valve cover to the intake but it needs to be changed by Ford because the engine technology has far surpassed the the 1960`s PCV system

Tom
This is very telling. Thanks. What alternatives do you think there are? Only option to install a catch can? I would pull my intake manifold off myself but since it is under warranty, I don't want to potentially be accused of tampering with anything.
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Old 02-23-2016, 01:43 PM   #7
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If Ford sees you have changed part of the emissions system it could void your warranty , I would ask ford what to do about this issues , there going to say nothing can be done , I talked with a Ford Engineer extensively about this and there is things in the works to change it but he didnt feel they would be in effect till 2018-2019

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Old 02-23-2016, 01:46 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pintoman View Post
Dumb question but what is the temperature back in Illinois.....I had to ask 'cause I had a '83 Escort GT w/ fuel injection that just wouldn't start in cold weather....seemed that during cold weather the fuel would end up in the crankcase....the weather was 20 degrees below and didn't have a block heater either.....AND when I moved back to CA from Wy 1 1/2 year later, I had to have my valves redone due to hydrocarbon build up, not allowing the car to get to temp from point A to B.....just my input, not a mechanic! Maybe just letting the car warm up for a least 2-3 minutes might help before taking off.
Right now it's in the 40's. Doesn't matter what ambient temperature, only seems to matter engine temperature, and is worse/longer lasting after sitting overnight.
The only time I had trouble starting it was when it was below zero and it stumbled for a second. I let it idle for a few minutes in that case... mostly for my comfort though :)

It is my opinion that a modern car should not need to warm up for a few minutes to run smoothly.
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Old 02-23-2016, 07:27 PM   #9
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Just remember that Tower2's is also at 100k, and the manual cleaning he mentioned isn't likely to do well at reaching the problem area on the back of the valves.

The TiVCT has been questioned a lot for this possible problem, and so far the variable intake timing to occasionally allow some "reversion" into the intake to let fuel wash the back of the valves seems to have been doing well to reduce the issue.

Not seeing a need for regular cleaning as on some other earlier GDI cars, or the issues seen on some ecoboost models. I'd guess that forced induction reduces the possibility of the 'reversion' mentioned, with pressurized air in the intake.
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Old 02-25-2016, 11:10 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sailor View Post
Not seeing a need for regular cleaning as on some other earlier GDI cars, or the issues seen on some ecoboost models. I'd guess that forced induction reduces the possibility of the 'reversion' mentioned, with pressurized air in the intake.
You may have a point; certainly something different is going on as it obviously happens more with them. I still think the all short trip driving for first year and half or more could accelerate it if it is occurring.

I'm curious to find out what the cause is. Should know soon enough, at least I hope so.
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