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Old 05-26-2014, 10:20 AM   #1
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Octane

Hi,

Do you need a tune to feel improvement with the premium 93+ gas?

Can the car detect premium fuel and increase timings itself?

thank you
have a nice day!


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Old 05-26-2014, 10:35 AM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ELCouz View Post
Hi,

Do you need a tune to feel improvement with the premium 93+ gas?

Can the car detect premium fuel and increase timings itself?

thank you
have a nice day!
No you do not require a tune to feel an improvement with 93 octane fuel. The car has twin independent variable camshaft timing and advanced spark controls combined with 12:1 compression ratio. The car is detuning itself to safely run 87 octane thanks in part to this as well as the direct gasoline fuel injection at each cylinder.

If you want more performance than this and or plan on modifying the car a tune might help, but is otherwise unnecessary on a stock car as the car will adjust right up to the limit of incipient spark knock looking for the maximum safe timing it can run, which is higher on 93 octane than it would be on the more easily combustible 87 octane.
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Old 05-26-2014, 09:21 PM   #3
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Well that has been debated heavily here in several threads.
Some folks claim they find no difference what-so-ever with 89 octane vs 93 octane. At least one person claims he gets much WORSE mpg using premium gas.

Then many others, including myself use 93 octane all the time as we find it does offer some advantages.
For myself using 93 octane in my 2012 Focus with manual tranny I find throttle tip in is better, low engine speed use is smoother, and I get slightly better mpgs using Shell Premium. My cost is $0.40 per gallon extra. and I still find it worth buying.

I also have a free flowing air filter and 'snorkle delete' (the snorkle delete is a large thread in this section pinned to the top of the page. Worth reading at least some of the comments. Easy to do and worth the effort for any driving enthusiast who does not want to spend a lot)

I agree most modern engines have automatic timing adjustments related to 'knock' sensors. and the engine management will slowly, constantly, advance the timing within parameters all the time.. Limited primarily by any knocking found happening. So the limits of ignition advance will be more limited with 87 octane gas, than with 93 octane gas.

A tune (or a change in the assigned parameters by altering the computer progam) may (or may not) improve performance over stock if 93 octane gas is always used, depending on the engine and the original setting of engine management.
It is my experience that the MK3 Focus can and does gain some from use of 93 octane in the stock engine.

Older engines without sophisticated engine management cannot take advantage of higher octane fuel if the engine was set for regular gas. Then in that sort of car, ONLY a retune of engine management can adjust for premium gas use. Personally i think some of the mis-info and arguing comes from this fact old engines could not benefit from casual use of Premium gas.

One of the first Fords to use a built in ignition timing self advance in the engine management was the Ford Probe. Which was an 'open secret' not advertised to the general public to keep the EPA dogs at bay. But the Ford engineers who worked on the Probe knew it was there, and wrote papers about it..
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Old 05-26-2014, 09:31 PM   #4
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So it means you won't see the effect of the premium gas until few fill up right?

This make sense...
I don't think the car push the timing for knock every seconds.
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Old 05-26-2014, 10:46 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ELCouz View Post
So it means you won't see the effect of the premium gas until few fill up right?

This make sense...
I don't think the car push the timing for knock every seconds.
Actually you can , take the Batt loose for about 5 Min and you loose all "Learned Memory" of your driving style , knock , fueling etc

You should see a change from 87 to 93 right away

A tune can change the parameters to help 91-93 octane to perform better , the ECU is limited on the timing it can advance and VERY limited on its ability for the knock sensor to do its job thats why the manual comments about spark knock "knocking" and not to worry about it , the knock sensor is a part of the learning ability but it takes time

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Old 05-26-2014, 10:48 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Elizabeth View Post

One of the first Fords to use a built in ignition timing self advance in the engine management was the Ford Probe. Which was an 'open secret' not advertised to the general public to keep the EPA dogs at bay. But the Ford engineers who worked on the Probe knew it was there, and wrote papers about it..
The SVO Mustang was in 84 and had timing advance , knock sensor and a lot more , Probe came out in what 1989 ?

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Old 05-26-2014, 11:13 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ELCouz View Post
Hi,

Do you need a tune to feel improvement with the premium 93+ gas?

Can the car detect premium fuel and increase timings itself?

thank you
have a nice day!
you would be in bad shape if your car didn't adapt right away to the change in octane levels.
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Old 05-26-2014, 11:18 PM   #8
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fuel volatility sensors in the tank. yay.
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Old 05-27-2014, 04:42 AM   #9
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My understanding of the direct-injection motors is that the its not just a de-tune/timing issue that allows you to run 87 in a 12:1 compression engine; its the fact the fuel is injected "cool" directly into the cylinder and this helps prevent pre-ignition. Google it.
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Old 05-27-2014, 03:26 PM   #10
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Thank you it's very informative... never had a GDI engine before this one. So far I like it, except its a little weak under 2500 rpm.

But hey, like someone said on the forum... drive it like you stole it!
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