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Old 02-01-2009, 09:42 PM   #21
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Ok

Quote:
Originally Posted by warneej View Post
i find that the car runs much better without it. Keep in mind my other modifications. Now it revs down between shifts and doesn't stall at idle. It also still idles at my programmed 850rpm idle without it.

Seems like it runs like a normal car now...
Then discuss it with Tom, he knows your car and your cal and would understand your situation better.

BTW, how is it for WOT?

No problems or restricted power?

I dont expect any, but with your mods I was just curious how it feels at WOT.
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213 whp / 160 wtq D23 NA with stock intake and TB.

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Old 02-01-2009, 09:56 PM   #22
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doesn't feel any different at WOT honestly, except the whistling is gone.

the biggest thing is that it doesn't bog if i'm say rolling at 2k in a gear and punch it, like it used to...
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Old 02-01-2009, 10:20 PM   #23
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Wouldnt thet reversed TB plate cause air flow impedence? Since the back side, now on the front, is not smooth.
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Old 02-01-2009, 10:34 PM   #24
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Can't say for sure......

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Wouldnt thet reversed TB plate cause air flow impedence? Since the back side, now on the front, is not smooth.
I never went to engineering school, maybe someone on the forum has.

However it is the same plate in the same bore, just different direction.

So the only effect would be where the turbulence occurs, on entry or exit.

When you use a formula to calculate the coefficient of drag for a vehicle, the formula only cares about the frontal area of the vehicle, not the shape of the vehicle's profile.

A "brick" with 25 SQ FT of frontal area produces the same drag as a 25 Sq Ft "wedge".

Do I have this right mr engineers out there? Or have I made an incorrect assumption?
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213 whp / 160 wtq D23 NA with stock intake and TB.

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I like the same qualities in women and pistons; Lightweight, fast, and with the smallest skirts possible...
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Old 02-01-2009, 10:50 PM   #25
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Originally Posted by N2O Focus View Post
Wouldnt thet reversed TB plate cause air flow impedence? Since the back side, now on the front, is not smooth.
That's the main reason i didn't do this to mine. I'm no engineer but it definitely does look like it might cause issues. I just bought a used FC throttle body.

Don't get me wrong, this looks like a great budget mod. I'm sure someone who's smarter than I could enlighten us about it.
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Old 02-01-2009, 11:05 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ehancock View Post
That's the main reason i didn't do this to mine. I'm no engineer but it definitely does look like it might cause issues. I just bought a used FC throttle body.

Don't get me wrong, this looks like a great budget mod. I'm sure someone who's smarter than I could enlighten us about it.
I'm not the kind of person that likes to speculate or guess.

The first review of this mod seems to indicate a home run, and I'm interested to see more feedback from others that have tried it, but let's not turn this into a theoretical debate of airflow principles by non-experts, including myself.

Although I do believe what I said about calculating drag co-efficients is accurate.

If we were disturbing airflow ahead of the MAF that would clearly be a problem.

Or if this were a carbureted situation, then disturbing or modifying airflow in the carbs would be a problem.

But nothing occurs in the throttle body of a Fuel Injected engine but the control of total volume entering the cylinders. The aerodynamics of the leading edge of the throttle plate is insignificant, it not like a spoiler or wing that needs to have airflow over the pieces in a certain direction etc.

IS THERE AN ENGINEER IN THE HOUSE!!!!
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Inventor of "The $0 Thunder Throttle" & "Focuzdax-7" brake swap.
I like the same qualities in women and pistons; Lightweight, fast, and with the smallest skirts possible...
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Old 02-01-2009, 11:12 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tb1999 View Post

A "brick" with 25 SQ FT of frontal area produces the same drag as a 25 Sq Ft "wedge".

Do I have this right mr engineers out there? Or have I made an incorrect assumption?
thats correct

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IS THERE AN ENGINEER IN THE HOUSE!!!!



all bets are off once the air gets to the IM. it really makes no difference once you get to the throttle plate. At that point, laminar flow is next to impossible until you get to the ports, and even then its a challenge since the air is taking heat on from the head (convective cooling anyone?). The plenum is generally thought of as a bathtub of air from which the engine siphons what it needs. Its not usually a place where flow comes into play, unless you are maxing out the plenum.

at WOT there will clearly be no difference at all because both sides of the throttle are still equally exposed

where flow comes into play is all of this "path of least resistance" junk (engineers dont really use that way of thinking, it tends to get you in trouble) where if you create locally higher pressure on the leading edge of the plate you could increase the wall friction and promote turbulence
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Old 02-01-2009, 11:22 PM   #28
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^ thanks!

Rep sent!
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213 whp / 160 wtq D23 NA with stock intake and TB.

Inventor of "The $0 Thunder Throttle" & "Focuzdax-7" brake swap.
I like the same qualities in women and pistons; Lightweight, fast, and with the smallest skirts possible...
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Old 02-02-2009, 09:39 AM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by warneej View Post
doesn't feel any different at WOT honestly, except the whistling is gone.

the biggest thing is that it doesn't bog if i'm say rolling at 2k in a gear and punch it, like it used to...
this is the most interesting to me. i hate being at 55/60, then floor it in 5th, and........blah.
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Old 02-02-2009, 08:34 PM   #30
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Well direct drive is 4th gear and with 5th gear there is no torque multiplication taking place anymore (hence overdrive) and will always bog unless your up in the triple digits or making insane amounts of power. In fact its not good practice to really floor it in 5th unless you have the speed built up. Its hard on the transmission.
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