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Old 05-04-2014, 04:49 PM   #1
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Duralast Drums with same p/n but are different

This is about Auto Zone Duralast drum part number 80112.

Had a rear bearing fail about 6 months ago and replaced the drum and shoes on passenger side only. Finally got around to replacing the other side yesterday.

I pulled off both drums because I did not paint the one I installed 6 months ago and I wanted to put new drum retaining nuts on. When I pulled off the 6 month old drum, I found the bearing was bad. Auto Zone gave me a replacement for free... but I took the last one they had on the shelf.

Now I have 2 new drums. Same part number but each drum was slightly different and the box they came in was different too. Sorry, I painted the one on the left side before the picture.









Please note that the ABS tone ring is not installed on either drum.

My question for you guys is; what is the name of the ring that the screwdriver is touching? I will call it a "guide" for now. The old OEM drums had the guide. One of the new Duralast drums has the guide, the other new Duralast drum does not have the guide. Obviously these two are from different Chinese manufactures or batches and manufactured with different specs. Ref side-by-side drums in pic above, the one on the left side (1) I painted it before the picture (2) has no guide (3) does not have the ruff orange peel protection on the outside (3) the box opens up from the top (4) I hope is the older design that Auto Zone is fazing out. I prefer the other one, the one on the right side. The one on the left side is also the same exact type that was installed on my car for 6 months and I found the bearing damaged. It had tossed out lots of clear grease and had some axial play.

Here is what they looked like just before putting the dust caps on and finishing the job. First is the one I like, the one with the guide and with orange peel texture.




Here is the one I do not like.


After running a new non-painted drum for 6 months it looked like this. Never again.



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Old 05-05-2014, 11:08 PM   #2
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I am not familiar with that specific drum and the ring in question so I am sorry that I cannot help you with that.

The aftermarket drum and rotor industry was allowed to die in the US because the Federal Trade Commission only imposed an 8% tarrif on drums and rotors that were being imported from China and sold below market value. At first there were many manufacturers, then at each review there were less, and the FTC would only keep the 8% tarrif in place and do nothing to actually level the playing field. At the last review the few remaining "manufacturers" were now petitioning for the removal of the tarrif as they had now sourced their parts from China as well, and manufacturing drums and rotors for the aftermarket in the US died.

That's why you can only buy crap now. The casting surface on the outside of the drum that you do like is absolutely attrocious. That would never pass in this country as something to be sold. The material that they use is inferior, and the machining is sometimes ok, sometimes not as ok as it needs to be.


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Old 05-06-2014, 12:01 AM   #3
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I think the ring is officially called the "water seal carrier", it makes contact on the water seal on the spindle to keep foreign matter out of the bearing.

If you still have your old drum you can carefully pry it out and reuse it.
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Old 05-06-2014, 12:26 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Buildist View Post


The casting surface on the outside of the drum that you do like is absolutely attrocious. That would never pass in this country as something to be sold. The material that they use is inferior, and the machining is sometimes ok, sometimes not as ok as it needs to be.


Steve
Thanks for the insight and feedback. The drum I like... seems like a newer and better version and is designed closer to the OEM drum; largely because it has the Guide. I am not going to call that thing a guide anymore since Sniper Focus gave it a name-> water seal carrier.

The casting surface on the outside of the drum seems like it is "absolutely atrocious" but I am guessing it was done on purpose. Other surface areas are not orange peel textured. The orange peel might be casted but might also be sprayed on after casting. Similar to spray-on truck bed liners... or maybe not, -I am just guessing.

Also, maybe-just-maybe the drum without the water seal carrier is more likely to fail... my first one did after only 6 months.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sniper Focus View Post
I think the ring is officially called the "water seal carrier", it makes contact on the water seal on the spindle to keep foreign matter out of the bearing.

If you still have your old drum you can carefully pry it out and reuse it.
Thanks. Yeah I still have the old drums. I tried to pull the seal out (only lightly tho) and it wanted to stay where it was.

Sure wish I had matching drums on the car now. Guess I am a rolling test bed for Duralast drums. Also wish I had taken the new drums, pressed in new Timkens and had water seal carriers on both. Oh well, -Meh.
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Old 05-13-2014, 03:52 AM   #5
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A dust and rock shield, some part makers include them, others don't. The true seal is in the bearing itself behind the circlip. The mismatched parts issue is common, just like the other guys you can get as many as 10 different discs in same box or different boxes and the different ones never seem to play out to have one or the other box disappear. I saw multiple boxes for years on end, the box suppliers also change every fifteen minutes based on price quotes that move up and down every day. The big parts chains have so many suppliers for each part it's not funny, the parts change with virtually every box you open. Getting 'matched' sets were often a problem, lots of people base their ideas of quality on being able to do it.

You can go long periods without that shield, I looked for them on Tempo driveshafts back in the day and could find none on the supplied driveshafts. They didn't even list a part in the seal catalogs for them. Ford only at like $20 a pop and you guessed it, I ditched the part, the car still running now and some 20 years later. I also don't have the shields on at least 2 focus rear brake drums. More like a slinger, if you go underwater they will pass it instantly so not doing much good there. Mainly to keep dirt particles from the bearing seal itself.
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Old 08-16-2014, 10:57 PM   #6
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What kind of paint did you use Marde ? What should I ask for at the parts shop ?
It must be some better than average paint to withstand the temperature. It's a bit late for my drums ( all rusted now ) but I am willing to give them a good wire brushing and try it since I am about to change the rear bearings!
Thanks !
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Old 08-17-2014, 01:30 AM   #7
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Paint type is called "brake drum & caliper paint". Most car parts stores have it.
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Old 02-27-2015, 02:17 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marde View Post
...Guess I am a rolling test bed for Duralast drums. Also wish I had taken the new drums, pressed in new Timkens and had water seal carriers on both. Oh well, -Meh.
After less than a year, the rear drivers side brakes are now squeaking during many of my stops. I know I hit all the shoe contact points with plenty of grease, so it bums me out that I gotta pull the drum(s) off again, ugh. I got a funny feeling the Autozone (Chinese) bearing is failing again! When I did this last time, I used a new axle nut and did the torque properly.

If the bearing looks/feels bad, I will not use ANOTHER Autozone drum (bearing). Instead of getting a free replacement at Autozone again, I might (finally listen to myself) have a shop press in a reputable brand of bearing.

Maybe I will just go buy the bearings in advance, and find a shop ready to press em in, before I pull the drums off. Good idea. Thanks Marde, I appreciate the idea & your help.

This post is just me whining, sorry guys. I will post back after I get it opened up and let you know what happened. <end unnecessary rant>

$32 for ONE good bearing, uhg. Just called Autozone, they sell the same part# for $42 and said they might price match it. Update you later.
http://www.amazon.com/Timken-516007-.../dp/B000BZ6W2E
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Old 03-04-2015, 07:05 PM   #9
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And why the part sellers use the cheap crap bearings in most of their replacement drums. I never buy a drum with a bearing in it, only best of the best bearings go in and waiting for when those lose their quality as well, it seems to be the norm now to sell crap in everything.

I never got drum brake squeaking to stop permanently using grease on the contact points, the noise comes back at varying time but always before one year. Best thing I did was knocking off the corner on the end of the shoes, that pretty much stopped 100% of it. They may do it for only a second if car has sat in rainy weather for a week (rusty drum), but one good stop and then noise stays gone again.

The pads move forward with car in slow roll traffic, then they snap back and do it again over and over. All at a thousand times a second or so. It turns into the squeal and magnified by the backing plate which is too thin and rings like a bell. Why greasing the contact points stop it, but it's back as soon as they wipe dry again. The right angle corner of the LEADING end of shoe digs in to do the creep, knock that corner way off with a shallow angle like new wave disc pads have and the pad cannot dig in enough to move forward. One end only, top of front shoe and bottom of back.

Both my cars squealed and once done on the exact same shoes that were making the noise have not done it since.
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Old 03-04-2015, 11:33 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by amc49 View Post
Best thing I did was knocking off the corner on the end of the shoes, that pretty much stopped 100% of it.

...

The right angle corner of the LEADING end of shoe digs in to do the creep, knock that corner way off with a shallow angle like new wave disc pads have and the pad cannot dig in enough to move forward. One end only, top of front shoe and bottom of back.

...

Both my cars squealed and once done on the exact same shoes that were making the noise have not done it since.
Thanks for the feedback. I'm gunna tear into it within the next week and will post-back what I find.

The new pads had tapered edges on the leading and trailing edges a tiny bit (IIRC). The tapered edges were still kinda sharp, so I (only) hit them with some sand-paper prior to install. When I rework the drum(s) I might hit those edges and add some more tapering using a die-grinder or similar.

This thread talked about installing 2 different drums, each with the same part number; one I liked; one I did not like. The one I did not like was an older stock item in the Autozone system-> this one is also no longer available (in Arizona) and is also the one that is squeaking. I have a feeling I got the last of a bad batch, and the newer type (shown in pics above from last year) might be better/more reliable than the old batch... wishful thinking huh?

I might give another new Duralast drum one more chance after-all...
If that old-batch bearing looks/feels bad, I might get the "free" drum replacement with a new-batch drum... and then I will have a matching set of drums, each with the water seal carrier.

On another note, I just got two new Timken 516007 bearings in my garage. So I am ready to go either way; another free Duralast drum or install new bearings in the drums I am driving on now.

BTW - Autozone told me that they are now/about to stop selling Timken boxed & branded bearings and will replace most bearings with a Duralast logo box that are actually manufactured by Timken. See the small print on current & future boxes of Duralast parts to find out who actually manufactured or sourced the item.
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