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shift or no shift?

6K views 16 replies 13 participants last post by  2000blackzx3 
#1 ·
Here is a good read for those in need-
http://www.vorshlag.com/tech_upshift.php

What is your take on down/up shifting?
I've always heard shifting adds more time then it's really worth but yet i still do it when i feel like i need it. The Miata has ZERO power at the bottom of 2nd (reminds me of the SVT!) so i usually play with the shifter if it's easy to shift in that particular corner/element. I'm sure this is all relative, but i'd like opinions.

To shift, or not to shift??
 
#2 ·
I am a shift once kinda person at the beginning. I have found when I race that shifting somewhere in the middle does slow you down.

-Ray-
 
#3 ·
if it's a short course just stay in first and hit redline if u get to redline then of course shift

from what I have experienced with my SVT first gear seems to be the sweet spot unless your boosting
 
#4 ·
I've always felt that downshifting back into first in a front wheel drive vehicle with an open differential slows you down. If you can get the inside wheel to spin trying to accelerate out of a corner in second, the being in first is only going to be worse. I find it's only worth it on extremely tight corners (ones that really have no business being on a well designed autocross course). And in an SVT, third is always out of the question, unless the course is ridiculous.
 
#5 ·
I haven't been able to do much racing recently, but when I do have the chance to get out, I find that only using first gear as a starting point helps out for my style of racing. If it's a straight course for a while at the start, I'll run first up to about 4000 which is pretty much the end of the pull there, then shift into second, and by the time I get any high rpms it's time to slow a bit and turn. If the course starts out with a tiny straight and a turn, hold first until you get out of the turn and punch it. When your car stops pulling in first, it's time to shift and whoop some ass. I usually stay in second unless there's a really long straight or slalom to the finish. In that case I get better traction and pull in the lower end of third.[thumb]
 
#6 ·
I haven't pulled third but once in the 3 years that I have autoX'd.

2nd is usually the best place to because you will usually stay in the mid-range before redline. Very rarely, have I redlined the car in 2nd. 1st is nice and long, but yeah, it can be uncontrolling a bit if you have to slow-down.

-Ray-
 
#7 ·
Most of the time its one shift for me, up to second and stay there. Since I've been running the ST final drive and with the 225/45/15 tires, I haven't had to down shift back to first, ever. Very rarely I'll go to third, just like the article says I suck it up and stay in the limiter.
 
#8 ·
I hate the limiter on the SVT, completely bogs the engine.
The Miata has a great limiter and loves to be up there.
I have tried down shifting the Miata to get some RWD rotation, not sure how i feel about it yet.
great opinions! love it.
 
#9 ·
I never shift down to first. But I will shift to 3rd if I can stay for a while. I have a 7200 rev limit, but don't often risk going over 6800 unless just for a moment
 
#10 ·
2nd goes up to 65mph in the SVT, ridiculous if you ask me. Raymond remember back in the day when Coty would go to the AutoX and he would down shift into first and you wouldn't. His times were slower than Raymond's but much closer if he didn't shift if I remember right? In very tight corners a down shift to 1st may help though IMO if done properly and in the right kind of turn. The SVT just feels gutless down low in 2nd, though it's not really that slow if you look at the speedo, but who looks at the speedo right? lol
 
#11 ·
Ha, when I was a rookie i looked at the speedo and check my mirrors for downed cones!

I think i only hit the 2nd gear limiter once when i was racing my SVT, and that was at an airport with tons of space. My rule in the Miata when it comes to up-shifting is if the rev limiter bounces more than 4 times in a particular area that will be my up shift point.
 
#13 ·
I usually stay in 2nd in most of courses... sometime I downshift in 1st in really tight hairpin otherwise I stay in 2nd. Last course I did had a very fast quatermile long stretch with distanced slalom, I put it in third on my last run, arrived at the hairpin maybe 10-12mph faster than the other runs and entered the hairpin wayyy to fast.. lost all the gains I did with understeer! I miss RWD in these situations!
 
#14 ·
The only times I ever down shift to first are when I spin. It doesn't happen often, but some times the signals get crossed between my hands and my eyes.

When I ran in FSP (3 seasons) I never went up to third or down to first. Either you just hit the limiter a few times and then your slowing for a turn or you just mash the gas and wait for the power to come on and use that time to look ahead and set up for the next sequence. Trying to put a down shift in there is distracting to most people and by the time they figure out where their hands are, which way the wheel is turned and what their feet are doing its already too late.

Granted with some practice you can get accustomed to doing it. But if you watch some of the best drivers in stock classes they get to second and stay there. I've watched multi-time, multi-class national champs run through off-set gate sequences banging the limiter in second and be several seconds faster then the next fastest car. Gear changes can drastically change the balance of the car if not done at the right time.

It also depends on the car too. Some rev limiters are nice and "gentle" and the engine will just happily hang there and spin and spin. Others are rather "violent" and it feels like the car has hit a wall and you expect it to fall apart.
 
#16 ·
+1 to this. Too much time lost for the too little speed benefit. This is a time to work on left foot braking as well to carry speed and modulate the loud pedal as you slow and re-direct for a corner/feature on a course. We usually get 5 runs, so there is usually an extra run in there to try 'a different approach' to see if any major reconsiderations to a particular course yield lower times.

Eric G
 
#17 ·
I have hit third once on a very long straight into the banking of an oval, where there weren't cones for security reasons (we don't want cars meeting concrete walls). I do hit the rev limiter (7400) in second a couple times in our fast events of the year. I always hit second in the first straight / turns of the course and stay there. Tom's tune and the HFC do help a lot with torque down low on this car, much better than it was stock.

Example of a really fast course :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JUKIzDpMVJ0

I think I shortly hit the limiter 3 times on this run...
 
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