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GLU goes to autocross!

18K views 160 replies 16 participants last post by  mikebontoft 
#1 ·
Hey guys, i just wanted to start a thread for myself so i can ask questions and get feedback on what i'm doing.

first off, this will be my first season trying autocross needless to say i'm pretty nervous. i do think i have a pretty good starting platform though.
my zx3 has been dropped with the dynamic suspension, i've got an exhaust and intake and i'm adding a 24mm adjustable RSB and an SVT FSB. oh also my tires aren't the best but i'm running a 215/45/17. something i don't have is SEAT TIME! that will change this year. i'm planning on going to at least 65% of the races this year.

i just have a couple questions and i'm sure more will come up as the first race gets closer and even after that.
launch? zenranger told me 3k is pretty good to to launch at, any other suggestions or tips?
also what are some tips on memorizing the course? like when you're walking it, do you guys take a notebook to sketch it out? i think this would help me remember some of it.

thanks in advance, more questions and discussion to follow! [cheers]
 
#2 ·
Dont waste your money on the SVT front sway bar, its the same size you have already. The only models that came with a smaller front sway bar is the SPI LX sedan, and the 05 S sedans. Never did the ZX3 come with a smaller front sway.

What I would invest in is some new endlinks for the sway bars. Pick up some MOOG OEM replacements for the front sway bar, and some poly bushings for the rear. The MOOG will look stock but are beffier and have zerks on them.
 
#4 ·
i'm definitely getting the Moogs at the time of front sway install.
on the fsb, i thought that all 05 s had the smaller one? mine looks SMALL.. i wanna measure it now.. i already ordered the svt one.. used 90 bucks so not bad if it's the same size. Maybe Mike will buy it lol.
 
#3 ·
Your launch isn't very critical, just get to where you get a little bit of chirp or spin off the line. Work on being smooth on the launch so you can be to WOT as soon as you can without wheelspin. Note this will vary with course design. More critical than launch is how you line up at the start. Position the car for the best line at the first turn you have to make.

Walking the course is very important, people sketch the course, some don't. Personally I don't sketch it, but I have some friends that do. I just try to walk as many times as I can, when I walk, I walk a line where my car is going to be, not just blindly following the course.

On key thing that helps me with looking ahead, is asking myself where I need to be looking ahead to at each element, while I walk the course. I used to find myself focused on a turn while I was walking to it. Now I focus on the turn that is one or two or more from where I am walking at.

While I'm waiting for my first run in grid, I'll sit in the car with my eyes closed and visuallize myself running the course. Hands on the wheel and visuallize where I'll brake, turn, and so on. I get weird looks from people, until I beat them:D

Also, take advatage of instructors, and ride along with other fast drivers. Don't be afraid to let others drive your car during fun runs, if your club does them. This is probably on of the quickest ways to learn to be faster when you're a beginer.

Also, don't forget to talk to people, BS about stuff, ask questions, look at other cool cars, and have a good time!
 
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#8 ·
yeah, i checked that out for sure.
it says this, "there is also the 18mm sway bar that is on the SPI as well as the 05+ S and SE Models." so that right there means all 05+S&SE models right? zx3,zx5, sedan..
it really looks tiny man, like it could be 18mm. i'll measure it this weekend.
 
#9 ·
Walking the course is invaluable. One thing that helped me tons, was working the first session and driving the second. I got to watch where others were making mistakes and focused on those spots. I've only been 2 or 3 times and they've been a blast (especially the rain one!!). I've given up trying to do a smoking fast 1st lap and let that be my 'track learning' lap. I do it like I was driving Ms. Daisy....then I keep stepping up my pace lap after lap till the last lap when I'm hoping someone will come up to me and say "if that wasn't your last lap of the day, we'd throw you out of here!" [rofl]
 
#10 ·
hopefully WD40 catches this, it's a question about camera mounts. the one he made in particular. i'm going to be making on this weekend, and just wanted to know more about the strap that is needed per scca rules. does it just need to attach to the camera and something else solid? like the mount or headrest bars?
thanks
 
#13 ·
Sorry about that...didn't see this till now.
I put an eye bolt through the headrest mount adjacent to the camera, and attached the camera's hand-hold strap directly to it.

As far as the SCCA rules, this is all that's in the rule book (2010 rules):
3.3.3 Safety Inspections
B. Inspection Requirements
3) Any cameras, if installed, must be securely mounted to withstand loads from driving maneuvers. The camera may be installed either inside or on the outside of the car. In either case, its mounting meth-od and position must not interfere with driving or pose an additional hazard to driver, passenger, or course workers.
 
#12 ·
Unless you're afraid of putting some reasonable wear on the expensive tires on the car, you shouldn't worry about that yet. Odds are that size wouldn't be any faster that what you have now, unless you paid enough to get sticky tires.
A better investment would be seat time. Get the schedules for the year of the 3 or 4 closest other clubs, put it all on a calendar, and see which ones you might be able to make. If you must buy tires, get something affordable in a stock size and try to destroy them with as many events as possible. You'll probably run a year or two before tires are relevant.

An experienced driver will gain a second or so from sticky tires. A good launch is worth a few tenths of a second. Experience is worth several whole seconds. A rookie can learn bad habits with great tires, while things you learn on bad tires will still apply later to sticky tires.
 
#14 ·
i'm going to attend every event the utah region has this season, as for the others "around" here they're way too far for me to make. (different state) i absolutely know seat time is the best thing money can buy for a novice but the lightweight wheels and good/decent tires were on my list even before i started to race. so i'm getting them sooner then later and i just want opinions on them.

currently i have svt wheels 17x7, w/ budget no name tires.. they have no traction what so ever, it feels like my car can handle a ton better then the tires are allowing me to.. i understand slower is faster but i don't want to turtle it out there.

star specs are on my list right now for a good "street" tire. i won't be putting them on my svt wheels since my car is a daily driver, and i want good all seasons on those. (i have winter wheels and tires too!)

thanks for the advice guys. keep it comming, i'm all ears.

WD40, thanks for the info, at both events i've gone to they don't hassle me about the camera mount which BTW works AMAZING! thanks for the idea!!
one suggestion for you or those that use it, mount it all the way across both seats if you can, or just mount it on the drivers side, it reduces the vibration big time. (assuming you guys have aftermarket motor mounts)

[ffrocks]
 
#15 ·
As long as you have the crap tires on all 4 corners, use the reduced grip to balance the car through the rear swaybar. That way, when you have nicer tires, you will know how to control the car when it loses grip, and it will be balanced, mostly. Then you can change the handling as nessasary through tire pressures.

A balanced car with no grip is a blast, by the way. Its like racing in one of the pre-aero GP cars.
 
#16 ·
i dunno, i'm gonna play around with different tire pressures next race.
probably won't have to as much. i hear this next course is GRIPPY.
so stoaked.

when having to make a 90 degree turn, is it, hit the brakes leading in hard turn the wheel while braking? then straighten up and gas it?
 
#18 ·
Absolutely get all your braking done in a straight line. Any understeer is lost time. Roll into the the gas smoothly after the apex.
 
#19 ·
The best thing you can do is practice. The way I get good is the one local track has a low key autox which depending on how many people show you can get 10 to 20+ runs. Also there are plenty of experienced people and they also have a driving instructor there.
 
#20 ·
Things to remember on a 90 degree turn:
Know what’s after the turn (straight, slalom, another 90)
Slow in fast out
Late Apex

Standard approach: 100% braking in a straight line, turn in for a late apex, roll onto the throttle just after the apex to power out of the turn

Intermediate approach: Start braking in a straight line, turn in while releasing brake pressure (trail braking) to help the car rotate, roll onto throttle same as above.

Advanced approach: I haven’t mastered left foot braking, but it will help you brake later into the corner, rotate the car, and keep weight on the front wheels to reduce understeer and apply power out of the corner. At least that’s my understanding. What you get is induced throttle off oversteer, with accelerated forward weight transfer. This forces the front tires to bite hard giving you lots of grip up front and allowing the rear to rotate. To stop the rotation you mash the throttle and it will straighten right out.

So work on the standard approach (I’m still at this stage most of the time) until you can nail the proper apex every time. Also work on hitting the right entry speed so you don’t understeer and loose time at corner exit. Once you get your line and entry speed right, then work in some trailbraking on really tight corners were you need some extra help rotating the car.
 
#21 ·
wow thanks guys!! i tried doing the "standard' approach at my last event cause there were two 90 degree turns that i was having a hard time with (not enough entry brake) it got better towards the end. pretty much after both 90s there were giant looping U turns so not too bad.

what about a C-box? i was taking it pretty slow in and hitting the gas out.. towards the end of the day i was going a little faster in and out but i was scared to clip the cone. this C-box was really tight/small, fun nonetheless!

i think at our next event i'm gonna have someone drive my car. i've been on rides but i wanna see what my car can do with a good driver.
 
#22 ·
Usually you can straighten them out a LOT. It's more a matter of knowing how close you can get to the cones. Think of it as an emergency lane change, or driving in a straight line, and just dodging the center cone.
 
#23 ·
Get as many ride alongs in any car as possible, and pay even closer attention to the FWD cars.
 
#24 ·
will do for sure. our next event is gonna be sweet. comp in the morning, then fun runs aka schooling. i can't wait.

great advice! that makes sense about the emergency lane change... ! i'd give you rep, but i have already! rep.
 
#28 ·
I'm still behind the curve in FSP, but working to get up to speed. Probably could have gotten competitive locally is ST, but those pesky '89 civics are very quick anywhere else.

In hot weather certain tires get greasy, so you hit them with water to cool them down. Also R-comps with two driver cars can get very hot to. After a couple of hot runs, you can feel the difference, literally put your hand on the tire tread after the run. Tires like the Azenis, IIRC, were particularly sensitive to getting greasy. Lately, I've had trouble getting enough heat in my rear tires, so haven't had to bust out a sprayer yet.
 
#26 ·
they spray their "R" compounds to cool them off after a hard run , when they get too hot they get greasy(slippery). i personally have never sprayed my tires[dunno]
I run in SM. ...first race of the season last sunday 4-19 i finished 1/2 second behind a 452awhp STI subbie i've never caught b4 ... and in the top 6 out of 59 cars overall[woot] (raw times).....Thanks for the awsome tune Tom!!! i love boost!!!
a friend took vid. of one of my runs, as soon as she sends me a copy i'll post it up, man I'm sooo stoked to go race again[race]
 
#31 ·
there is a SMF class, i just didn't want to be in a class by myself[wiggle] ,so i stayed in SM. what the heck right..lol
thanks for the props, i didn't think i was that quick till i saw the timming board. i know a few places where i could have gone a bit faster, like the first slalom i let off throttle a bit and should not have .. lol a little left foot braking in the second hairpin would've saved me a half second or so too. damn.
 
#29 ·
Most of the spraying is in the Street Tire classes, like ST/STS/STX etc. True "R" Comps work better when hot--and most autocross situations will not 'overheat' an R Comp.

It is not uncommon to see R comp shod cars with tire blankets (look like foil) on their cars between runs to keep heat in...

Street Tires, on the other hand, like the RT615, Star Spec, XS, RE11, RS3 etc. can overheat past their sweet spot--and is especially true on 2-driver cars and/or hot, sunny weather. The watering is on the tread face, more than the sidewall. Pump-up Garden sprayers work very well for this.
 
#30 ·
Yeah, this is true, its difficult to overheat R-comps. I was close down here last summer, I had a codriver at a small event, small groups such that we never had any downtime between runs.
But Erik's right, its really a street tire thing, and the subbie guys like to spray off their intercoolers.
 
#32 ·
thanks for the replies!!

at least you know your mistakes! always gettin better, that's what's cool about autoX imo. i'm not sure if there are any SMF riders in my division either.. if i could afford boost right now, there would be one!
 
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