: Dyno facts between JRSC TURBO Vortech Graph included
02-21-2005, 11:04 PM
Kinda hard to see but
Turbo is the red lines Toms setup 9lbs intercooled
vortech is the Red lines tuned by tom 9lbs after cooled
JRSC is the blue lines MY car 8.5lbs no cooling......YET[}:)]
Note all below is just my opinion
My opinion if your looking for a good street car especially in stop and go traffic choose JR
Turbo will be good overall (track and street)
Vortech is getting beat by the JRSC till 4800rpms in the horsepower figure and till 5000rpms in the torque figure.
Turbo will be the best for upgrades and biggest HP and TQ. It will also be good at the drags, roadcourses, and street. but not autocross. The only thing I can find bad with a turbo is its not C.A.R.B approval. Plus its alittle pricey to me for everything....but thats just me.
I guess vortech would be a good roadcouse car and dragstrip and will still have better and easier upgrades in the boost dept. But not very practical in my eyes for the street and auto cross. Plus its C.A.R.B approved but comes with some sorry tuning if you buy it with it
Jackson will be very good at autocross, and street due to the torque at low rpms. Plus it is C.A.R.B approved. But is much harder to upgrade due to the heat it generates. Only way of cooling it is with the methonal injection. Plus also comes with sorry tuning (damn black box)
I think I will do pretty good at the drags this year if I can get it to hook up. Last year on all motor with 152whp and 136wtq I ran a 14.8 at 93mph. Hopefully Ill be in the high 13s this year. I'll really need to borrow some slicks (cough TOM cough) to get where I want to. Last year I pulled a 2.2 60ft with some worn out kumo extacy tires.
02-22-2005, 03:45 AM
Wow, i learned a whole lot from this!! thanks buddy! I have been eyeing the JRSC for some time now, and this almost clenches it for me since i want a daily driver with lots of low end torque. As for cooling the jrsc, (maybe a stupid newbie question) whats the matter with the intercooler that JR makes?
02-22-2005, 07:48 AM
After seeing that dyno you WANT a jrsc ?????
02-22-2005, 02:56 PM
Yeah, I like to keep my torque as low in the power band as possible--also, i am buying a volant intake soon and i wish to keep that in my set up. I also need to keep my car emissions legal and as reliable as i can with forced induction.
The JRSC with its ease of tuning would seem like a good match for me...
I have thought about getting a turbo kit from you too, but im just not sure. Can you provide me with some info on your kits? How do i send it in for tuning? And what kind of fuel econ should i expect? I believe that a JRSC will actually add a few MPG's, at least thats what the techs at work tell me.
02-22-2005, 04:27 PM
I would guess that getting the JRSC, the JR Liquid Intercooler System, and a tune from Hypnotic would yield respectable numbers, and excellent for daily driving!
02-22-2005, 07:35 PM
Obviously power wise a turbo set-up is the way to go but cost wise and reliability wise some of us like me can't even afford the STG 1 SVT turbo setup let alone the full turbo setup, so like me we go to the JRSC
02-22-2005, 07:54 PM
can someone explain to me jr black box and the troubles wit it? is this everyone or just some of them...thanks...
02-22-2005, 09:38 PM
All the black box is, is actually a littl chip that u wire in when u install the JRSC, I haven't heard of anybody having problems with it, but it is setup for a SVT with no mods besides the blower, so other mods such as a TB,intake, ORP could possibly cause problems. But thats why u run more boost on it and get it dyno tuned.
02-22-2005, 09:42 PM
awsome thanks that answered alot!
02-23-2005, 10:32 AM
Wow, I'm most impressed between the JSRC and Vortec!
Cant beat an Eaton curve!
02-23-2005, 06:46 PM
Originally posted by AmazonRacing
Cant beat an Eaton curve!
W H A T ! ! ! Are we looking at the same dyno, The turbo kicks its BUTT
02-23-2005, 06:55 PM
I haven't heard of anybody having problems with it, but it is setup for a SVT with no mods besides the blower, so other mods such as a TB,intake, ORP could possibly cause problems.
What is this BlackBox?, never heard of it. What do u mean by an intake causing problems to a SVTF with a JRSC? Never heard of that either.
02-23-2005, 07:07 PM
A differnet intake from the stock intake as well as a TB flows more air then the chip(black box) is set up for!
I know the torque is as great as a turbo but the price is sure nice...
02-23-2005, 08:07 PM
Well that sucks! I'm planning on getting the FS col flo soon annd in the future maybe the JRSC. Is there any way of having both without any issues?
02-23-2005, 09:21 PM
Vortech I believe would be best for those of us in the desert southwest. When it's 115 outside, and air to air cooler just won't do it. Voretch has the sweet water tank that you can dump ice water into. believe me..I used to have a non intercooled vortech on my mustang, and during the summer, I lost 4-5 lbs of boost due from heat. My intake temp. was 174 degrees in August!! I wouldn't buy a turbo cuz of where I live. They get hot as hell in the first place from the exhaust..add in the added outside heat plus the crappy intecolers they have..and you have not much of anything.
02-23-2005, 10:44 PM
Wow... Those are very good numbers for the JRSC and damn that TQ curve is almost flat and starts in the 2.5K rpm range strong(compared to stock), which would make it very usable for a daily driver Focus.
So, you don't even have water injection on your JRSC with those numbers ?
Here's a little bigger picture of the dyno.
"Kinda hard to see but
Turbo is the red lines Toms setup 9lbs intercooled
vortech is the Red lines tuned by tom 9lbs after cooled
JRSC is the blue lines MY car 8.5lbs no cooling......YET"
02-24-2005, 11:48 PM
thanks for the bigger picture....I like the tq curve on the turbo alot also cause its freckin huge!
02-25-2005, 06:09 PM
How much from stock bolt-on has been done to that Jackson. I see most of it in the sig, but could you please list it...
02-25-2005, 06:27 PM
Wait I'm confused which is the JRSC lines, which is Tom's and which is the Vortech?
There's actually a blue, red, and green line.
Blue is JRSC.
Red is Tom's.
Green is Vortech.
I'm not sure what microtonal's pic looks like, cause I can't see PhotoBucket images till after 5:00.
I'll post up the enhanced one I did a couple days ago.
Don't know if this is any better than what's already posted, but it's worth a try....
02-25-2005, 07:08 PM
I just have a overdrive pulley(crank) and custom intake 42lb injectors, 70mm maf. thats all that has to do with the jrsc
After looking at the graph till my eyes have gone buggy, I've got a question for 1turbofocus, or whomever else might know.
1) Why does the HP/TQ curve cross exactly at 5,250rpm no matter what?
2) What's with the dip in all the results at 6,300rpm?
02-25-2005, 07:18 PM
TQ and HP will ALLWAYS cross at 5250RPM , If you see a dyno that doesent you will know it was doctored
As for the dips good question , Im working on that know got 5 Foci that do this i have dynoed
Good catch, good questions
02-25-2005, 08:52 PM
Men.. look at that TQ on Toms...
aint torque what matters the most.. since hp is an equation of tq??
02-25-2005, 09:09 PM
Yeah tom's puts out some AMAZING torque!! That would be a helluva fun car to drive...Damn carb...If i wasnt in CA or Oregon all the time, I'd be crazy not to go with tom's turbo...
02-25-2005, 09:37 PM
Yeah, well too bad TOM's and the JRSC both won't work well here in the desert. Too hot here for those. Gotta go with VORTECH.
02-25-2005, 09:43 PM
The Vortech puts out more heat than my turbo kit does
I have been testing all the FI stuff for air intake temp and the jrsc is the worst then the vortech then the turbo
True the Vortech has a water to air but it is the outside air temp that cools it and the small amount it holds wont last long , if its 100 deg out that your water will be 90 +
02-25-2005, 10:28 PM
damn n e one kno how much i need fro each set up??? thatll b great
02-25-2005, 10:59 PM
I'll put any of these three on if it someone gave me one LOL. What i am interested is more bang for buck as my SVTF is a daily driver. Unfortunately thats why so many people buy the SRT4
02-25-2005, 11:15 PM
yea u gotta give it to the dodoge they do have a fast ass lil ryde the srt4 even beat the 350z in the 1/4 in a couple tests iv seen ..deff the best bang 4 the buck no matter wat ne one says
im not h8ing on the focus im just saying the truth ..i love all cars so i give credit where credit is due
02-25-2005, 11:19 PM
true. even with the 4x4 stance and rental car interior. Guess that leaves more room for customizing and modding.
02-26-2005, 09:34 AM
lol yea iv been in one and that interior is horrible but i guess its easier to fix a cars interrior then to make it faster than a 350z lol
02-26-2005, 03:53 PM
Imo, Dodge has the muscle car mentality. Make it fast as a bullet at all costs, I suppose thats why the handling isnt the greatest, and the interior isnt so pretty. Must be fun to drive though, however most ricers will be afraid to race you...
02-26-2005, 05:46 PM
wow how did this thread end up here...srt-4???? what ....who ...where???
02-26-2005, 09:34 PM
From my mod list below, do you think their will be a problem with the Jackson Racing Supercharger (or can I just get some larger injectors?) I realize I am still under warranty but they can't void the whole thing possibly just the engine side. I want something in the $2,500 or so range and the JRSC seems to do that, would like a turbo (so I could keep my underdrive pulley kit.) but the prices scare me and the tuning issues that follow it!
02-27-2005, 12:02 AM
srry if i turned this into the srt4 section lol i just like all types of cars and that one just came up i kno alot of ppl here dont like it so lets get bak to force induction
n e body kno how much would i really have to put down 4 a jrsc and all the tuning and stuff i need to make my car run with a jrsc??
02-27-2005, 12:27 AM
Hey tom is there anyway for you to make your turbo set up carb legal i live in MA and if I get the the money I was thinking about getting your full turbo set up but I cant if the emissons arent legal.
02-27-2005, 09:01 AM
No will not be looking for CARB on my kits ,It is to costly and to much trouble , My kit is for off road use
02-27-2005, 10:27 AM
Well price wise for stuff for the jrsc it goes like this
overdrive pulley $125
tuning and toms MIC I think around $1100
meth injection $270
Yea alot. But you could get away with just 2550 for the basics
But I like my tq line, and everyday driveablilty and carb approval. But That numbers really close to a full turbo kit with much more potental.....BUT IT IS JUST WHAT EVER YOU WANT THAT MATTERS. DON'T WORRY ABOUT WHAT EVERYBODY ELSE IS DOING OR WANTS
02-27-2005, 10:55 AM
im thinking just the basic jrsc and in the following months getting sum xtras but i will deff get the tuning donee when i install the jrsc
02-27-2005, 04:56 PM
What is Tom's MIC? I don't want to be stuck with something that leans out my engine due to the fact that the highest octane I can run is 92. I want a nice HP/TQ line in the 230-250+ range. If my car was in the 12-13 range I would be happy! :) And as far as tuning goes I have a start (I have a SCT by Hypnotic Illusions.)
02-28-2005, 12:46 AM
Are these all on stock cars?
The Vortech #'s seem to high to be on a stock car..... can you give the specs on all the cars?
02-28-2005, 01:40 AM
Vortech is 9lbs boost toms mic and tuning not sure on exhaust
turbo is 9lbs toms turbo kit, mic tuning, not sure on exhaust
jrsc is 8.5lbs toms mic, borla catback custom intake
thats all I really know.
Oh and I finally got my water injection put on....but I speled all my methonal and im using washer fluid for now. SO far it feels pretty good. no numbers yet
02-28-2005, 02:56 AM
This is not to rag on any one kit or anything like that, its just some general information to think about when looking into FI or power building in general. This is the key, what makes a car fast is the highest average power across the RPM range you will be spending the most time in.
For example, lets say your shift points are at 7000RPM but your power is primarily focused below 3500 RPM, your not going to make much use of that power down low in most forms of racing. Why? Let's use drag racing as an example. You'll spend a small amount of time on launch passing through 3500RPM and using that good power, but after that you will primarily be spending time in the 4000-7000RPM range (not sure what the shift drops are on the normal zetec, but for example on my SVTF if you shift at 7000RPM you'll never drop below ~4200RPM [1-2 shift], and will mostly stay above 5000RPM after a gear change[rest of shifts]).
Therefore, if you want the "fastest" build, then you should build for the RPM ranges you will see, aka 1-2 shift = what RPM? 2-3 shift = what RPM? And so forth, if you never drop below 4000RPM, then the highest average power from 4000RPM-7000RPM should net the fastest track times. Now obviously different types of racing have different needs, you might find you need more mid-range then high end power for some racing types, but you get the general idea.
Another side note though is, low end torque is very nice on a daily driven car, also having a nice midrange punch is a fun thing to have in those "emergency merging" situations as well. So basically, it's all about what you want, chose/build your car around what gives you the most fun for the bucks.