My car has a vortech engine, and pulled out 230 whp.
click my page (http://www.cardomain.com/id/loverpig)

The problem is I have to stored my car for winter(-20 average in canada). Therefore, it is not pratical and i kind of need a daily car. So i decided to swich to Jrsc.

My question is how much whp and wtq should i make with Jrsc and my current setup.

Stock ENGINE
Cat cams stage1
Focus central Throttle Body
Race header
flex pipe
Focus Sport full Exhaust
(Vortech Aftercooler kit with 2.62 pully)
H&R Street spring
DisabloSport Performace chip
svt MAF
MafterBurner

and what is the different between Vortech and Jrsc depend on the feeling?

and what kind of pully for jrsc do i need to make 175-185 whp and 170-180 wtq?

i dont think you can make that much torque with the jrsc [:(].... if only you could tho

order the powerworks kit, quite a bit pricier than the JRSC, but much more power/torque...they claim 90 hp gain

www.powerworks.net

this kit is made by COSWORTH, the same guys who developed the SVT engine. the computer calibration is also a full emmissions/drivability calibration, so it will allow you to retain your warranty, like the JRSC, IF you have it installed by your dealership

Question: why is the Vortech not usable in Winter but the Jackson is?
Have you looked at the Pro-charger? They have a kit out ... but info only available by mail.

the vortech and procharger are inadvisable for winter drivers because there's no way to tune out the boost, which is undesirable in low traction weather conditions. a roots/screw type supercharger only generates boost under high engine loads, so it retains a naturally aspirated drive quality at part throttle. the centrifugal superchargers generate boost based on engine rpm, not load, so if you downshift to slow down, even with your throttle fully closed, the supercharger will still be pumping a bunch of air through the IAC valve, which will most likely then try to close because it's detecting too much airflow, and you stall out...unless you have it tuned to avoid that

Many thanks there , Crazymechanic, ... I was looking at the pro-charger and now the decision is made easy - Jackson it is .... without any intercooler. The dealer said they will install it if I order it through them. The charger and the install, about $4000 US. The bonus: I got to keep my factory 6 years extended bumper to bumper warranty :)

The temperature here tonight will drop to -30 with snow in the forcast .... if I want an everyday car with more power, I guess the root charger is the way to go.

Unfortunately, the Jackson will give me about 210 max @7psi without other mods (from the svtf's stock 170) A cold air intake may add a couple and that will still make a whole lot less than 200 on the wheel ..... I will be extremly happy if I get 200 on the wheel without spending a pile of cash. I guess I can go crazy and add HD clutch plate, intercooler and higher boost.

What mod you have on your 03 svt? Any other suggestions?

Eschew ... from the freezing NORTH

want to sell the vortech? pm me

eschew...there is no intercooler upgrade for the JRSC, you would have to go custom for that. the powerworks is the only roots charger kit out there with an intercooler AND proper tuning. my understanding of the JRSC is that it has a little chip that doubles your fuel injector pulses when it detects boost...not the best way of tuning, in my opinion. I would wait for the svt kit from powerworks...cosworth designed our svt engines, and they came up with the calibrations, I would trust a charger kit that came from them more than anything on the market.

Originally posted by crazymechanic
...the powerworks is the only roots charger kit out there with an intercooler AND proper tuning. my understanding of the JRSC is that it has a little chip that doubles your fuel injector pulses when it detects boost...not the best way of tuning, in my opinion.

Why not just get it custom tuned by tom, mcnews etc.. I myself live in the same climate, it's c-c-c-cold in the winter and very hot in the summer. I'm just lookin' for a little kick to the svtf (~200hp/160lb/ft are my goals) and am planning for a JRSC with custom tune since this is what my budget will allow. I just want a little more fun out of my daily driver, not a track monster....and no one can argue the reliability of the JRSC unit.

Just wanted to clarify a few things here...
Originally posted by crazymechanic
the vortech and procharger are inadvisable for winter drivers because there's no way to tune out the boost, What? "Tune out" boost? Not true. People are spooked at the Vortech's mentioning in the user manual of not running the blower below I believe 20* F due to the blower's oiling system. Vortech mentions this primarily because there are idiots out there that start up a cold car, immediately start flooring it, and seize up the blowers. Its recommended to use a block heater in REALLY cold areas, but this is just to manage the flow characteristics of the oil through the dinky little oil mister valve. The Procharger isn't affected by this as much because of its self-contained oiling system.
a roots/screw type supercharger only generates boost under high engine loads, so it retains a naturally aspirated drive quality at part throttle. Wrong. Just like any supercharger, a roots/screw spins right along with the engine RPM and will generate boost unless something releases/bypasses this. The JRSC (and most non-industrial blower systems) have a bypass system which allows them to "free-spin" and not generate boost when not at WOT. It has nothing to do with the class of blower.
so if you downshift to slow down, even with your throttle fully closed, the supercharger will still be pumping a bunch of air through the IAC valve, which will most likely then try to close because it's detecting too much airflow, and you stall out...unless you have it tuned to avoid that
If that's happening, its a half-ass engineered kit. This is one of a few reasons centrifugals and turbos use bypass/divertor/blow-off valves. When you lift off the throttle the bypass valve opens and boost is recirculated back to in front of the blower. There's no major buildup of pressure overpowering the IAC valve or anything like that.

Hmmm ... I see my simple question turns into a not so simple one.

I am with you, silver02stvf, I just wanted a little more power and not a monster at the track.

I really liked the procharger setup except for the intercoooler location. The speed bumps around our malls here will knock it out, if not, the snow piles would for sure....

The cosworth setup should be interesting, however, time is of the essence since Ford discontinued the SVT, the support for the SVT on the after market will trickle to a halt. It is a simple business decision: more support is available when more people owns it.

With the 2.0 Zetec phaed out, support for the 2.0 Zetech will disappear over time. If you are in the after market business, do you spend time to work on a Zetech noe or the Duratec? The cosworth guys is a bit late coming to the market. They will have to get the normal 2.0 kit done and then the SVT kit. They are really two different engines and the mod for one will not work for the other and that's probably why everyone is selling tow different kits.

I did not like the vortech setup becasue of the relocation of the battery - to just in front of the the front fender well inside the bumper. Not safe at all.

The Jackson is appealing becasue of price and reliability although it doesn't have many bells and whistles. Most charger/blower will need a fuel management system, and/or a chip mod but the Jackson apparently bypass all that by "trickery" with their own internal system that squirt more gas and using the "stock" chip. Unlike the plain jane Focus, the SVT chip does not come out so the whole "box" has to come out and ship to whoever (Vortech has a prepaid courier pack and promised next day service), burnt and returned. If Ford make any software upgrade to the chip (which they did late in 03 to solve the occassional high idle rpm problem), it will wipe out the mod and you may have to start all over again, or don't get the "fix". It might even happen that the dealer accidentally erase your mod chip with the Ford fix, then you are really screwed until you get it fixed. You might not even realized the mod was gone, all you know is the car doesn't drive quite right. Of coruse, you can always buy a tuner kit that you can make your own mod to the chip with a laptop via the OBDII port.

I read somewhere that some guy make a mod to the chip so the SVT intake mod will kick in earlier at 4500 rather than 6000 and thus, changing the power curve somewhat give the "push" earlier.

Great discussion so far, everyone, and I am learning lots here. Keep it going. Thanks.

if you have the YRF0 flash, or an 04 svtf, then the intake switches at 5000, though I'm sure that it's one of the changeable items on the SCT or diablo reflashes. the powerworks supercharger kit is already out for the zx3, at least, there's been a press release saying it's out, not sure who's selling it yet. the only real modification they have to make to the kit is the computer calibration. with regard to aftermarket support, yes, it is going to slow down. more than likely, everyone will finish whatever projects are still forthcoming, and then they'll scrap all future plans for more products. honestly though, what more do we need? we've already got several forced induction setups available, a bunch of nitrous kits, stroker kits, head packages, more exhaust systems than we know what to do with, more intakes than we know what to do with, cams (although, if I were going to do cams, I would get custom ones made), and standalone fuel management kits. we've got so many suspension kits, and tons of interior accessories. what more do we need? now of course there are some people who want to be unique, and make their cars like nobody elses. that's what custom work is for, not mass produced performance/appearance products. if you're not happy with what's already out there, or is promised to be out within a year's time, you should probably trade in your focus and go buy a civic.

oh, that was just a general RANT, not aimed at anyone in particular

loverpig,

why not save all your hard work and buy a winter beater. If you are good with your hands, you can get a good used car for cheap and fix it up. Hate to see you lose the vortech.

ok, slick, you're overlooking a few things. with centrifugal blowers, you can tune out boost...it's called a bleed valve. you don't find them on MAF equipped cars, only speed density systems. a MAF system would meter the air, and unless it had a way of measuring how much air was bled off, you would get a bad A/F ratio. a speed density system uses air temperature and manifold pressure to determine airflow, so you can bleed out boost after the turbo, because the MAP sensor will only read the pressure at the manifold, not at the piping in between. this is becoming more and more popular because it allows people to run a low boost application for normal street driving, and then crank up the boost at the track...without the need for an electronic wastegate or traditional boost controller.

also, with winter weather - there ARE traction issues, depending on where you live. now this thread was posted by someone in montreal, so running that kind of power in a limited traction area = not a good idea. I didn't even know vortech had any cautions about running a blower in cold weather, though your explanation does make sense. I was focusing more on the traction issue considering our question comes from Canada.

as for the roots/screw blowers, you are correct that they have a bypass system. however, you need not be at WOT to generate boost. in many cases, running more than 50% throttle will allow some amount of boost to build up. it won't be the full boost that you would get at full throttle, but you will generate boost, and you will produce more power. the reference to high engine loads was to illustrate heavy (though not necessarily WOT) acceleration. you can run your engine at 5k rpms, but it won't generate boost if you don't have the throttle open. turbo systems are similar, they generate boost faster under loads than they do freewheeling. and when you downshift with a turbo, even though your engine may be running at 5k rpms, if the throttle is closed, it won't generate much boost.

as for the poorly tuned kit, again, there ARE poorly tuned kits out there. I'm stressing once again the need for PROPER TUNING. when engine braking with a centi supercharger, compared to other FI systems, the centi slows down slower because at the higher RPMs, the blower is generating boost, whether the throttle is open or not. pumping this boost through the IAC increases fuel consumption compared to roots/screw and turbo applications because the boost is still present. now blow off valves are usually used to help take care of this problem - known as compressor surge, but even a blow off isn't 100% effective, and so we need PROPER TUNING!

I'm not saying anything that you said is wrong, slick, you just aren't looking at it the same way I am

Originally posted by crazymechanic
ok, slick, you're overlooking a few things. with centrifugal blowers, you can tune out boost...it's called a bleed valve. you don't find them on MAF equipped cars, only speed density systems. a MAF system would meter the air, and unless it had a way of measuring how much air was bled off, you would get a bad A/F ratio. a speed density system uses air temperature and manifold pressure to determine airflow, so you can bleed out boost after the turbo, because the MAP sensor will only read the pressure at the manifold, not at the piping in between. this is becoming more and more popular because it allows people to run a low boost application for normal street driving, and then crank up the boost at the track...without the need for an electronic wastegate or traditional boost controller.

Sure you can bleed off boost, its basically a manual bypass/blow off valve. You can do this on a MAF-equipped car, but you'll need to route the bled-off air back into the intake (post MAF, pre blower). I wouldn't want to do this though, because you will only be heating the air.

Originally posted by crazymechanic
also, with winter weather - there ARE traction issues, depending on where you live. now this thread was posted by someone in montreal, so running that kind of power in a limited traction area = not a good idea. I didn't even know vortech had any cautions about running a blower in cold weather, though your explanation does make sense. I was focusing more on the traction issue considering our question comes from Canada.

You have a point, but really, this is moot. Do you think Vortech (or any other manufacturer) cares if you have traction? If they did, they would tell you not to drive the car in the rain and include limited slip diffs in their kits. They are only concerned with the life of their product, so the lubrication is their main concern.

Originally posted by crazymechanic
as for the poorly tuned kit, again, there ARE poorly tuned kits out there. I'm stressing once again the need for PROPER TUNING. when engine braking with a centi supercharger, compared to other FI systems, the centi slows down slower because at the higher RPMs, the blower is generating boost, whether the throttle is open or not. pumping this boost through the IAC increases fuel consumption compared to roots/screw and turbo applications because the boost is still present. now blow off valves are usually used to help take care of this problem - known as compressor surge, but even a blow off isn't 100% effective, and so we need PROPER TUNING!

It doesn't matter if you are talking about a roots blower or a centrifugal blower; they are all tied to the engine's crank, so they will build boost accordingly. As you stated, this is why we use bypass and blow-off valves. As long as the valve is large enough to flow the excess air, you'll be pretty safe from surge. Yes, tuning is VERY important. However, tuning doesn't affect air flowing through the IAC. If you are trying to shove more air past the throttle plate than you can vent out the bypass valve, then you'll have your problem. If you get a larger valve, you'll have no problems. This is why bypass valves and blowoff valves are rated for specific flow rates.

I am keeping the vortech, and i am using amsoil 0w30 a very thin oil to help the vortech works in cold winter. BTW, There are alot of people drive their vortech powered foci in the winter. They just use a really good oil and warm up the car at least for 3 mins.
I drove the car for 1 weeks already. Everything is fine and fun too. I even experinced a snow storm this weekend, alot of fun thoough.

essveetee, Howmuch is you vortech bypass valve, I am interest in it. PM me and give me the price

Originally posted by essveetee
loverpig,

why not save all your hard work and buy a winter beater. If you are good with your hands, you can get a good used car for cheap and fix it up. Hate to see you lose the vortech.

when I read this I was thinking the same thing, you would be able to get some old school jeep for a fairly reasonable amount.

Originally posted by loverpig
essveetee, Howmuch is you vortech bypass valve, I am interest in it. PM me and give me the price

The bypass valve was $220 new. For now, I will only be selling it with the kit because the aftercooler had to be modified to accept it. PM me if you need anything else though.

i had a winter beater , and buick centrey. I haven't drive my for 3 months from october. And i am sick of getting passed by some civic with their so "cool" JDm engine. that is why i want to drive it in the winter.

Originally posted by loverpig
i had a winter beater , and buick centrey. I haven't drive my for 3 months from october. And i am sick of getting passed by some civic with their so "cool" JDm engine. that is why i want to drive it in the winter.


who cares if they pass you in the winter, they are the idiots for driving fast in the snow, i would rather have a beater and have them ruin their car in the winter and keep my focus for the summer

this winter is kind of warm in canada. Now i am having +3 and the snow is gone

Originally posted by loverpig
this winter is kind of warm in canada. Now i am having +3 and the snow is gone

...then take her out and have some fun. Were getting really warm weather in southern ontario too, feels like spring here [8D] .

To start off ... I don't want a civic. CrazyMechanic - See quote below. I borrowed it from someone else in the forum and I liked it!!! [:)~]

Too bad that there is not a single place that you can find out about the pro and cons about all the forced induction methods such as root/screw/centri/turbo etc. Everyone says their setup is the best (read sales pitch). Is there any place that the information is more neutral?

It is looking more and more llikely that I am going with a Jackson at this point. It is about time for me to change the plugs and it will be perfect timing to get the charger installed at the same time. I just want to get to about 180-200 on the wheel. I know someone who has a Jackson kit and tuned it to 250 on the wheel. I know I should be able to get close to 160 on the wheel with about 7 psi of boost, which is okay, and still leaves the car drivable.

How much will the gas milage will be affected? 5%? 10%? With the gas prices the way they are going .... I don't want a shock when the mpg drop to 10 mpg. Mind you, you put in a charger, wou should not worry about the mpg.

If I need to buy one NOW, would Jackson be the choice if my conditions are as follow:
(1) easy install
(2) no other mods are necessary/or required (not that I won't do it anyway to enhance it, but at least it will be my choice)
(3) low risk for blowing a head or something
(4) chip mod not necessary (not that I wouldn't tweek it, but then again, I make the choice )
(5) keep my warranty
(6) and, of course, cold weather (-20) issues, traction, frozen fluids etc etc

Any comments would be appreciated as I am going to sink 5G into it and I planned to keep the SVTf for a few years. (Cheap insurance ccompare to a Mustang SVT as well as it does scream "ticket me" to the cops)

By the way, the header noise is really loud, is it supposed to be that loud? It seems to be getting louder when the temperature is colder. This is my first real winter with the SVTf so I don't know if it is normal or not (the SVT specialist at the dealer did tell me that the header is louder than what I am used to on my Contour V6). The constant ticking is getting to be a pain. The solutionso far: crack up the stereo ...

Crazymechanic, can you post more info on the "YRF0 flash, or an 04 svtf, then the intake switches at 5000". Is it something that I can ask the dealer to do and will it works with the 03 SVT? As far as I know, the difference between 03 and 04 are mostly cosmetic. There has been no hardware changes. (the HID headlights, Euro package are all cosmetics)

Again, many thanks ...

Eschew
__________________
"If Nismo stands for Nissan Motorsports, what's short for Honda Motorsports."[:)~]

2004 models have a different fuel pump, and different tuning because of it.
The '04 factory flash is ZED0.
YRF0 will only work on 02-03 model years.

Both ZED0 and YRF0 will open the short runners on the DSI (Dual Stage Intake) at 5,000 rpm.
The original flashes in the 02-03 models opened the runners at 6,000 rpm.

Many thanks WD40 ...... I will ask the dealer which one is in mine.

Eschew