Hey everyone...

I am looking for "down the road" performance mods to do, without going turbo to get my SVT to 300whp.

I really like cars that are turbo, but just don't want to go through all of the hassle with adding new oil lines and other crap to toss a turbo onto my car. A lot easier if the car already has a turbo factory installed.

Now, back to the topic.

My goals are for every day driving with this car...

I am considering lowering the compression to 8.5.1 or slightly there abouts, with beefier cams, built bottom (ofcourse), head work, injector upgrades, computer work and smal other upgrades to allow my car to run whatever boost it takes to hit 300whp.

Now, how possible is it for a supercharger to allow my SVT to run up to 300whp with lowering the compression, increased head work and the other small mods? Would I need to run 20+ psi of boost on the charger? Are there any chargers that allow for 20+psi, or is there a limit with chargers (never worked with them before, so I am unfamiliar with the amount of boost they can run).

Would a charger be ideal for making low-mid-high end torque, or low-mid-high end power? Or would a turbo be more ideal for that?

I know you can't have everything when it comes to performace with the engine, just would like to get as much as I can without going overboard.

I am NOT looking to make my car a 1/4 beast. If I wanted that, I would have gotten a different car from the start. More or less a quick off of the line car +.. a good amount of trq. and a car that can pull and pull. Especially in a street racing type of environment. Something that can stick with a turbo Cobra Stang or a Turbo Supra on the road, if need be (example). Maybe not that close with them.. but something that could be respectable.. maybe a 12.00 - 12.99 1/4 mile IF I was to make it into a 1/4 car.




Or, if tossing in a turbo is the better way to go for me. I don't really want to dump $20k in the car for the V-8 conversion because I think putting a turbo on the car or a charger with proper mods could keep up with the V-8 conversion for a while, until you hit over 140mph.



I am not looking at taking the car past 120 - 140mph, so, if that helps with my question on the SuperCharger... Also, I would hope superchargers will advance a lot within the next 4 years (that is probably when I will put the charger OR turbo on the car).



Thanks,


Rory

Forgot 1 thing... Does a supercharger have LAG like a turbo, if not.. then wouldn't that be a "more ideal" thing to go with for my application IF I can get 300whp out of one.. with about 20+psi? Since the power will always be there when I step on the throttle?


Thanks again!


R.

supercharger has instant boost but the turbo has better boost throughout the whole range...supercharger is more of a low end boost, will give you better lower end no doubt but if u want some top end with low end a turbo is the way to go....to get a 300whp supercharged car you mind as well get a turbo charged car as it will be cheaper (not as much tuning needed) and turbos are just way cooler in my opinion :P

but if you are set on a supercharged car...300whp has been done b4, just search

depends what kind of supercharger you use, a centrifugal supercharger will have lag. it's basically a belt driver turbocharger, so it does have lag. a positive displacement supercharger like and eaton or a twin screw or whipple doesn't have lag.

I dont know if this will help you any, but I was thinking of turbo charging/supercharging my zx2 s/r. Both cars have a ztec engine but they differ slightly with heads and compression. If you want big boost I would suggest going with a screw type supercharger. Then your going to have to figure out how to mount it and what type of intercooler you decide to go with. I would go with a whipple supercharger (very efficient) and a air-water intercooler. You might want to check out this link. It is a zx2 with an eatom m90 supercharger with an air-water intercooler. I would do the same setup if I had a focus, but instead put on the whipple supercharger because of better efficiency and boost.

Hope that helps
Jeff

Supercharger Thread
http://www.geocities.com/teamcatalystracing/zx2/index.htm

With the svt's a supercharger would be a better way to go im looking into that myself and im most prolly going to go the supercharger route. In my opinion the supercharger would give u more power over a turbo but i think a supercharger will be a safer power enhancer

When the Powerworks SC system comes out for the SVT in awhile, its numbers will be close to what you are looking for.

Thanks all..

WinnipegZX3.. when that kit comes out for the SVT.. is that with a stock engine setup? Or with upgraded internals & lowered compression? Cuz, if 300whp, or close to it can be squeezed out of a stock setup on an SVT, I would imagine that more would come out of it :) with better internals.

If having better engine internals won't help at all.. then I won't do lower compression and better internals.


Depending on how much everything will cost me in the long run... I may stick a built 2.3 4g63 stroker motor with AWD in the SVT :) Maybe run 20 - 25psi and do 9's or 10's :)

Just kidding.. although that would be cool.





Thanks again all!



R.

I don't think the PowerWorks will be close to 300 whp, maybe at the crank though.

Hmmm...

Maybe I will just have to go ahead with a turbo.

Thanks.


R.



Merry Christmas!

Turbo is the only way you are going to reach your goal

Tom

I figured that would be my best bet.


R.

There is a Vortech SVT that is running around 270-280 at the wheels. The powerworks blower is capable of your power goals with really good tuning and a custom pulley among other things. And also not to bash tom or anything but he likes to make it seem like his way is the only way to reach your power goals the supercharging possibilities for the focus are only starting to be tapped so dont be so quick to think its not possible.

Well, I don't really want to get involved in that mess...(between the Turbo & Tom...) but, I know the easiest way to achieve my goals of 300whp would be a turbo.. But, if in a few years.. someone has a good supercharger on the market that allows me to run 3--whp without a problem & with my tuned and improved engine upgrades.. and it is a lot easier for an install than a turbo... I would probably go that route..

UNLESS.. the power band #'s suck completely and there is no pull from mid to high rpm's.



Thanks again.

R.

The first thing you need to understand is, cooler denser air will bring much more power then more hotter air.

Second thing, a blower will cause low end power loss even though you get boost sooner. Its driven from the crank, so therefore not nearly as efficent as a turbo.

Third, Turbos make power up top...I know more turbo 4bangers that I can count that are absolute dogs off the line, or as my friend put it, 'from a dig, I can take him on my sister's bicycle till about 25mph.'

Im gonna go with an F-trim for the time being, but the last person I heard of that was putting down 275hp to the wheel, ate his rings apart.

To cover a few things said , QUOTE "I know more turbo 4bangers that I can count that are absolute dogs off the line, or as my friend put it, 'from a dig, I can take him on my sister's bicycle till about 25mph."

This is caused from know knowing or buying a cheap turbo kit , the turbo kits i do will set you back in the seat anything above 2000RPM and keep you there till top of 6th

I just finished a SC Vortech that did 331HP at the wheels and was built as a daily driver but heres the kicker it only had 250TQ at the wheels

Stop worrying so much about HP# and look more at the TQ , TQ is what you feel at the seat of the pants and what get the Focus moving faster

Look at the TQ numbers on ALL your SC then at the TQ numbers on a Turbo , That is the numbers you should be looking at not HP

2003 SVT built engine Vortech 15PSI = 331/250 Figures at 17Psi roughly 340/260
2004 SVT same built engine exactly Turbo 17PSI 304/317

The Vortech has 26more HP but that would never make up for the 57TQ that is is lacking

That is why i push turbos , most think it is because i sell them, If the SC would make better TQ and out run the turbos i would be doing SC

Tom

Well.. Being around Turbo DSM's for almost 10 years.. I am quite familiar with turbo lag, tq., hp #'s, 1/4 times, etc..

If I could get amazing trq. #'s from start to finish and get the same with the HP.. I would go with whatever would get me there, no NOs though.

I am just looking to turn my SVT into a very nice & strong street runner... no 1/4 mile hog... but also a very clean daily driver. If I can hang with "MOST" street runners from 2,500 - 6,500, then sign me up for whatever will get me there most efficiently.

I have "always" been a fan of the turbo & not the supercharger... but if a superwharger will put me where I want to be with my goals and do it more efficiently, then I will go that route. But, if the turbo is a better way, then I will do that. I just am not a fan of lagging until 2,500+ with the turbo... so. But, since I am not going to be racing off of the line and will be going from a roll (10mph+), I don't think lag will be much of a factor.

I just don't want all of the custom fab work that comes with installing a turbo kit on a car that didn't originally come with 1. Potential for a crappy install job, leaking whatever's, etc.

I will do more research and hopefully make up my mind when it is time for my purchase.

Thanks,


R.

Originally posted by 1turbofocus
To cover a few things said , QUOTE "I know more turbo 4bangers that I can count that are absolute dogs off the line, or as my friend put it, 'from a dig, I can take him on my sister's bicycle till about 25mph."

This is caused from know knowing or buying a cheap turbo kit , the turbo kits i do will set you back in the seat anything above 2000RPM and keep you there till top of 6th
Yeah, Im sure your turbo kits arent 'cheap' either are they? Lol.
Depends more on what you wanna do, you wanna be a dyno queen? fine, go right ahead..
Do you want more power on the road?
Do you want get faster ETs?

The general rule of thumb is, autos are much better for turbos, stall up, leave the line at 3grand. IMO turbos just dont sync aswell with manuals vs. Autos.

But, I dont know Focus at all...ill stick to Mustangs. [:D]

Btw, Im going custom turbo for both cars....

You will have to break each of these down for me i dont understand

Depends more on what you wanna do, you wanna be a dyno queen? fine, go right ahead..

Do you want more power on the road?

Do you want get faster ETs?

Tom

Hahahaha

From what I gather, custom Turbo kits aren't ever cheap.. atleast $3,000+ (MINIMUM).

My last turbo, JUST THE TURBO, cost me $980. JUST the turbo, no lines, no intercooler, no custom this or that.. Just the turbo.... So, I am not really stressed on the price of the turbo kit... just want something that is going to be what I want.

If someone sells a kit which included the intercooler, pipes, turbo, etc.. The hole Sha-bang-a-bang, and I can pull 300FWHP+ without a problem. then that is what I am going to do.. Just as long as the quality, fitment and performance is rock solid. Not some half assed "bits N' pieces" kit that was put together for $XXX.XX number of dollars and still requires other misc. parts from other vendors to be ordered just to make the turbo setup fit, so someone can make a few dollars off of me.


I am not looking to beat on my car, ie.. 1/4 runs that require the rev's to be up near 6k+, then drop the clutch and watch as the tires peel N' squeel (1 wheel peel). I am looking for street racing performance with power all throughout the rev's. If a turbo kit is the way to go.. then that is what I will purchase, but if someone can prove/show me that a superchrager is the way to go, then I will go that route..


LUPURI: I agree with you on the statement about the auto's being better for turbo's. The rev's do not drop as much as with a manual (imo) when shifting.. so you can always keep that boost level at peak when racing.



On the DSM club forums.. people would always bash Dave Buschur (7.** 1/4 rwd talon) because he would always use the forums to promote his products at first, and people would be pissed about it. Sure, there were still plenty of others using the club forums to push their products.. but if you have a good product, why not self-promote every now N's then.

I noticed that Tom didn't say "GO TURBO AND BUY MY KIT".. he just said go with a turbo because..."...."

I do not know Tom, so please do not think I am on his side in any way. I was just looking to see if 300whp would be possible and better to go with a charger than a turbo.

I have always leaned towards the turbo when looking for more power, so.. if someone or company can prove me wrong with a supercharger kit they developed, then I will go charger. For now, I am still gung-ho about the turbo.



Thanks,

R.

Forgot one thing...

Tom,

You say your turbo kits don't really need a lot of time to spool..."the turbo kits i do will set you back in the seat anything above 2000RPM and keep you there till top of 6th." Is this on a stock Focus SVT motor or a built motor? If it is built, what compression, head work and other stuff was done to it?

How SMALL is the turbo you use on your kit? (website of your site). Or, if you use a larger turbo.. equivalent to a Big 16g on a dsm, or an 18g, 20g etc. that usually has some lag time. Or, are you using a T25, 14b or some other small turbo like what was sold on a 2nd gen Eclipse/Talon to not have such a large lag time? Or, do you use a ball bearing system (garret ball bearing cartridge type) in your turbo kit?

I just want to see how many cfm's your turbo flows that you sell with the kit, and at what ranges. Any more info on the turbo's that you use would be great... Is it a Mitsu turbo or another brand?

The turbo I had, PTE 50trim, was good for my 500+whp on my Galant VR-4 DSM with my 2.3 stroker and supporting mods, ~about high 10's in the 1/4. I think that turbo had about 560+++cfm flow rate. can't remember the # exactly. I think the t-25's and other small turbo's have a cfm of about 200-ish? maybe up to 300 if they are lucky?



Thanks,


R.

http://www.grapeaperacing.com/GrapeApeRacing/tech/turbochargers.pdf

just found this.. read it.. seems to be very helpful. When I lower my compression and put larger camshafts in and do some head work, I may have to go with a slightly larger turbo..than what is sold with Vendor X's Focus Turbo Kit.




Thanks again,


R.

HOLY COW POOP Batman..!

Almost $6,000 for Tom's Kit? Seems VERY overpriced for what you get.. imo. An intercooler that should cost about $1,000... some piping that should be about $600ish, clamps N' hoses.. maybe $100 at most?? manifold, maybe $500, oil pan.. $150? injectors (what brand, Denso? or crap ones) maybe $500 at most depending on the brandand a turbo.. maybe $800 - 1000?

About $3,800 at most in my opinion... plus install, which has to be done, no matter what. Just wait a year or 2.. and there will be other good turbo kits on the market as well.. Then, everyone will be forced to lower their pricing.

That is what happens at first, when their is only a select few turbo kits on the market.. people/vendors can charge whatever they want to.. and people will be forced to pay that price.. because they want more power and don't wat to wait.


Thanks,

R.

http://www.diamondstarmotorsport.com/turboparts.shtml

A DSM vendor... same place I bought my PTE 50 trim about 1 year ago. They have the Turbonetics T3/T4.

Turbine Wheel: Stage III & Turbine Housing: .63 AR & Compressor: T04E 50 Trim, should get about 450whp with tha application on a DSM.. Don't know how bad the lag is, but thay say it spools up slightly faster than the PTE 50 trim I had.. and that was about 3,000 rpms for 22psi. So, if the turbo specs I put up here are close to Tom's turbo choice, then just the turbo alone should be about $775....

Whatever the case...




Thanks,

R.

Oh.. what about a BOV. Does the kit have one, or does one need to be purchased?


Thanks,

R.

Rory, There is SOOOO many things not in your list that come in the kit

External waste gate
Down Pipw
Waste gate down pipe
Oil lines
Drain lines , bolts , fittings , gaskests
Diablo Predator for tuning
Recal MAF

Just to name a few , I always like the people that come in being new and know all about turbos and turbo kits for the Focus and condem the kits that are out there and are working

The SVT is over 3 years old now and im still the only company supporting the SVT with a full turbo kit

If you think you can build a turbo kit for less and make any money at it than do it , But evenyone that has tryed has failed and no longer makes any for the SVT or ZX3 , Precision is the only other quality kit out there that comes close to mine ,Yet it still wont make the power or is it as complete

My turbo in my kits i wont say much about other than it is a new Turbonetics T3 super 60 full custom , It spools very quick yet still make over 320HP at the wheels

There is a VID i can post if some one would like to see my SVT in action

Tom

And yes that is on my and a few others stock SVT engines , I make 326HP and 331TQ at the wheels with my SVT (18psi) and an ALL stock engine NO BOLTONS

With the high compression of the engine this is with higher octane to make these numbers

On an SVT with lower compression we built (8.2) the SVT did 304HP 317TQ at the wheels but with the new engine we didnt do max boost (15/16psi)

Tom

So for 6grand your throwing in a predator tune now?
There are a few companies that have turbo kits available for the SVTF...

Tom:

If a customer wanted to go as "sleeper/stealth" as possible with his SVT, would you alter your system to not blowoff (a dead giveaway), or is that component a dealbreaker?
How long do you usually hang on to a car when it's in for install?
What sort of effect does headwork have on integrating a turbo?

And, sort of related: How do you feel about STS Turbo Systems (http://www.ststurbo.com)?

Thanks,
J

PS: I'm not trolling. I'm just curious. The answers to these questions will be very helpful when the day comes for me to add FI.

Is there a supercharger that can deliver that kind of power.

The F-trim out of the box, Im sure you could come REALLY close to 300hp....would have to do other performance mods, ORP, SCT tune, TB, MAF, ETC..

If you wanted to adapt other head units to the setup Im sure you could see 300, but down low is gonna be weaker if the headunit is designed for a larger displacement application.

Id roll with the Vortech F-trim kit for the price, 4300, injectors, MAF (would scrap that for an SCT 80mm lightning MAF though, like 300bones...fully tunable with SCT) everything you need to bolt right on and see 250hp to the wheels..

The pro-charger is always a good bet. but I don't know if its out for the SVTF yet.

I was talking to a guy that works at Larocca's, claims they are out, shaft drive and sits in the firewall, put down like 260 with an tune..

Originally posted by jsidious
Tom:

If a customer wanted to go as "sleeper/stealth" as possible with his SVT, would you alter your system to not blowoff (a dead giveaway), or is that component a dealbreaker?
How long do you usually hang on to a car when it's in for install?
What sort of effect does headwork have on integrating a turbo?

And, sort of related: How do you feel about STS Turbo Systems (http://www.ststurbo.com)?

Thanks,
J

PS: I'm not trolling. I'm just curious. The answers to these questions will be very helpful when the day comes for me to add FI.

There is ways to do BOV with out hearing them , The type-s like i use most of the time you can hardly hear

Install takes 3 to 4 days to install and dyno tune

Head work done properly will help with HP and TQ but would wait to do that till you did your engine

The STS has its place out there but just dont feel it is on a Focus or anything else you can put it close to the engine , Turbos take heat and PSI to work, At the head the Exh temp is 1300 to 1400 under load and at the back of the Exh system it falls to about 450 to 850 and that is a big drop when were talking spool for a turbo

Tom

Originally posted by Lupuri
So for 6grand your throwing in a predator tune now?
There are a few companies that have turbo kits available for the SVTF...

Always has been a tune with the SVT kit

What other company makes a SVT Turbo kit

And you still havent answered these yet, What was the meaning of ?

QUOTE "Depends more on what you wanna do, you wanna be a dyno queen? fine, go right ahead..
Do you want more power on the road?
Do you want get faster ETs? "

tOM

On the SVT kit, the header is totally tossed to make room for the turbo manifold and turbo itself, correct?

Originally posted by Lupuri
The F-trim out of the box, Im sure you could come REALLY close to 300hp....


I just finished a fully built SVT engine with all the goodies and a Vortech (F Trim )it did 331HP but only did 250TQ

To me that is realy low on TQ

Tom

Originally posted by jsidious
On the SVT kit, the header is totally tossed to make room for the turbo manifold and turbo itself, correct?

That is correct

Tom

I would like to see what a ATI Procharger could do. Given that it won't have the torque a turbo has it still should be better than Vortech's kit. Also the way the piping is routed one could run a larger front mounted intercooler.

A larger intercooler is nice to have, especially in Las Vegas. But, one could still develope a water intercooler and have the car still look stealthy/sleeper, and probably a lot cheaper than the conventional air-air intercooler.

Turboing a non-turbo car is really expensive (turbo kit~$5k - 6k, built engine ~$3k), looking at about $10k for everything on top of the cost of the car. Might as well have originally purchased a turboed car then gone from there.


I think it is time to go back to a 1g DSM and pay about $1,500 then spend $about $6k and make it do 11's :)




R.

Originally posted by 1turbofocus
I just finished a fully built SVT engine with all the goodies and a Vortech (F Trim )it did 331HP but only did 250TQ

To me that is realy low on TQ

Tom
I was refering to direct bolt on, and yes...the torque will be low, out of the box they are only like 200ft-lbs. You were obviously running differnt pullies too...and heat soaking the hell outa that blower.

Originally posted by 1turbofocus
Always has been a tune with the SVT kit

What other company makes a SVT Turbo kit

And you still havent answered these yet, What was the meaning of ?

QUOTE "Depends more on what you wanna do, you wanna be a dyno queen? fine, go right ahead..
Do you want more power on the road?
Do you want get faster ETs? "

tOM
What other companies make an SVT Turbo Kit? HP does...
The reason why many companies dont, is there is no market for them.
Talk to any major performance shop, and Im sure you can have a custom kit built in the 5grand range. Im guessing the reason why your kit is priced how it is, is because the demand isnt exactly overwhelming..

And the questions were not directed towards you....but if you want me to reflect.
Being a dyno queen is refering to someone that quotes dyno numbers, normaly peak....for instance, someone that brags about 515hp and runs 12s. Anyone who builds performance, doesnt give a rats ass about peak, its overall numbers and the curve..

Do you want more power on the road? meaning...do you want to be able to smoke just about anyone that pulls up to you on a roll? IMO, either a blower or a turbo kit will work fine for that situation..but racing there are obviously more aspects then just getting on your car while driving down the road..

Do you want faster ETs? I know this is hard, but ET is 1/4 time....so the question was, are you out to make your ETs faster? if you are, then you need to take more into consideration then just peak HP...

Keep your dick in your pants...

Originally posted by Lupuri
Anyone who builds performance, doesnt give a rats ass about peak, its overall numbers and the curve..

Do you want more power on the road? meaning...do you want to be able to smoke just about anyone that pulls up to you on a roll? IMO, either a blower or a turbo kit will work fine for that situation..but racing there are obviously more aspects then just getting on your car while driving down the road..

Do you want faster ETs? I know this is hard, but ET is 1/4 time....so the question was, are you out to make your ETs faster? if you are, then you need to take more into consideration then just peak HP...

Keep your dick in your pants...

True.. Overall performance is what "I" seek and not 1/4 mile times, as I stated before. If any turbo kit or s/c can do some amazing HP #'s for me.. then where can I throw down my "not so hard earned cash"? [:)~]

I am not one that enjoys reving to 5,500rpms and then have my power "###WHP" kick in. I like it all throughout the tach... 2,000 - 6,500+, if I have to wait until 2,500rpms, that is fine too.

I know this is not my business, and I do not know Tom in anyway or the business he runs... But, to me.. if I want to be taken seriously, I wouldn't put up with (to me they are) the dumb comments or stupid remarks from other users. Sure, people may be joking around, or know Tom as a close friend.. but somewhat bad mouthing a man's hard work (turbo kit) and/or calling him names or commets like "Keep your d!©k in your pants ([:o)] ) wouldn't go well with me. As I mentioned before, it could be just friendly "smack talk", but I do not know anyone in here that well... so, for me.. "tsk, tsk, tsk... if your mother knew the words that were coming out of your mouth..." [8]



If I can get a pic or a link to a dyno run with the turbo kit, I would very much enjoy that for a few seconds. Along with all of the engine work to get those illustrious #'s across the rpm board.



Thanks,



R.

Originally posted by Lupuri
I was refering to direct bolt on, and yes...the torque will be low, out of the box they are only like 200ft-lbs. You were obviously running differnt pullies too...and heat soaking the hell outa that blower.

Out of the box on the Vortech is like 160 to 170 TQ on the SVT and 140 to 150TQ on the ZX3 ,,Not sure where you have seen one out of the box doing 200TQ at the wheels

As for the heat soak the F trim can safely turn 60,000 and to go out of its efficisncy it can turn 65,000 we were only at 59,600 so well with in it safe RPM so there was little to ne heat soak with the air to water cooler that the SVT Vortech kit comes with

Tom

Originally posted by Lupuri
What other companies make an SVT Turbo Kit? HP does...
The reason why many companies dont, is there is no market for them.
Talk to any major performance shop, and Im sure you can have a custom kit built in the 5grand range. Im guessing the reason why your kit is priced how it is, is because the demand isnt exactly overwhelming..

And the questions were not directed towards you....but if you want me to reflect.
Being a dyno queen is refering to someone that quotes dyno numbers, normaly peak....for instance, someone that brags about 515hp and runs 12s. Anyone who builds performance, doesnt give a rats ass about peak, its overall numbers and the curve..

Do you want more power on the road? meaning...do you want to be able to smoke just about anyone that pulls up to you on a roll? IMO, either a blower or a turbo kit will work fine for that situation..but racing there are obviously more aspects then just getting on your car while driving down the road..

Do you want faster ETs? I know this is hard, but ET is 1/4 time....so the question was, are you out to make your ETs faster? if you are, then you need to take more into consideration then just peak HP...

Keep your dick in your pants...

Not sure who HP is , Who are they?

My kit isnt priced the way it is because of demand it is priced the way it is because of what all it comes with and the quality of the kit ,If there was 20 other companys making a SVT turbo kit it would still be the same price because of its quality and tuning

I look at a dyno queen as a car that can lay down big numbers but you never see or hear of it at the drag strip,road course, out showing off or backing up those numbers

My Focus both of them are out there and out there often, Just finished VIR 3.2 mile road course and drag raced from FL , GA ,TN , NJ , NH , VA , NC , SC this year alone and backed up my dyno numbers with a 11.88 @ 123 MPH on DOT tires with interior and not a stripped car a dyno queen couldnt do that

Show me one Performance Co. that does not brag about there highest numbers and use there highest numbers as there calling card , It buisness its the way its done ,Obviously im not going to say, WOW at 4000RPM i made 210HP and 280TQ at the wheels , Most people know there is numbers under the curve ,Most Co. would say i did 325HP and 328TQ at the wheels (peak # for STD kit as well as the 4000rpm posted above )

The other 2 arnt even worth addressing

My Foci are daily drivers yet make serious HP/TQ at the wheels , The turbo kits dont know if there on the road going after groceries , On the 1/4 track or road racing and they dont care if you at 1/4 throttle of full throttle that is what tells the turbo kit what to do nothing more

Tom

Tom:

Do you ever get tired of defending your product on these forums? Seems like someone always has to hate.

Na, Im proud of what i do and want to make sure everyone understand what realy is going on so i dont mind it at all

Tom

HP makes quite a few Mustang Kits....renowned for their 475hp 530tq single turbo kit on a stock EFI302..

A yes, I saw your 11.88 at Etown...Jimmy D from JDM was giving me shit for not running in any event that weekend with either car. I wasnt questioning anything you did on the track, and still are not...to be honest I dont care enough about makeing my focus run 12s, or 11s...I get in it, turn the key and drive it to work. Ill leave the hardcore abuse for my Mustang..

As far as 'hate', Im hardly hating....its pumped up full of BS thrashing other companies stuff trying to act like he is a savior for the focus...when he is honestly the only shop that wants to deal with it and has a shoe in on the market. Very similar to the post Tom put up about his tune that got XXhp and XXtq throughout the band, when his baseline comparison was on a very very VERY weak #d dyno run....

Alright..

Tom.. a simple question. Let's say I have my 2.0 SVT motor still in my car. I do bottom end work to lower the compression. Use whatever brand of pistons/rods/etc (Eagle/Crower/Etc.) and do head work with porting. Ti retainers, valve springs, valves, all the works.. stage 1 - 2 head work. 3" exhaust (turbo back w/high flow cat), upgraded fuel pump, 660cc injectors (if need be) upgraded Camshafts (stage 1-2), ecu upgrade/program, 15-22psi, and your turbo kit..

What is your "guestimate" on HP/Tq. throughout the tach range along with Peak HP/Tq? And, while keeping my getrag, how badly would I need tp upgrade the internals to hold this kind of power? Would I need an ACT2600 clutch, flywheel/pressure plate or something stronger? Better axles (Raxles)?




Thanks,



R.

Tom.. another ?

How long have you been working in the field of building custom turbo kits, 4 cyl. performance? Have you been mostly working with turbo's your entire "car modding" life, or are turbo's a relatively a new thing for you?

And what type of shop/company are you? (work out of your garage type, or a 25k sq. ft type)




Thanks,




R.

u should be thankful that tom took the time to develop a turbo for the focus. and with those kind of numbers...plus, ive met him and he's a really cool guy so i dont appreciate ur negative comments. not that that matters to you or anything, just sayin.
if u want more market go for a supra or something, im sure that them and all of the other rice burners have plenty of a turbo market

and tom, hows the turbo for the 2.0 duratec coming? hopefully i'll have enough money by the time u develop the turbo

Originally posted by Lupuri
HP makes quite a few Mustang Kits....renowned for their 475hp 530tq single turbo kit on a stock EFI302..

A yes, I saw your 11.88 at Etown...Jimmy D from JDM was giving me shit for not running in any event that weekend with either car. I wasnt questioning anything you did on the track, and still are not...to be honest I dont care enough about makeing my focus run 12s, or 11s...I get in it, turn the key and drive it to work. Ill leave the hardcore abuse for my Mustang..

As far as 'hate', Im hardly hating....its pumped up full of BS thrashing other companies stuff trying to act like he is a savior for the focus...when he is honestly the only shop that wants to deal with it and has a shoe in on the market. Very similar to the post Tom put up about his tune that got XXhp and XXtq throughout the band, when his baseline comparison was on a very very VERY weak #d dyno run....

Still dont know who HP is , What is the name of the Co. or a link

As far as QUOTE "I get in it, turn the key and drive it to work. Ill leave the hardcore abuse for my Mustang..

I get in my Focus, turn the key and drive it to work. Ill leave the hardcore abuse for my Focus and out run most Mustang..

QUOTE "when his baseline comparison was on a very very VERY weak #d dyno run....

[:)][:)][:)][:)][:)][:)]*What are you saying here ?

Tom

http://www.turbochargedpower.com/
Obviously lack depth in the Ford Performance knowledge area....
Im saying that your baseline Dyno #s that your promoting your tune with are BS, dramaticaly lower then stock #s with FULL stock application...

ProjectDeath69: who are you gearing your comment to?

Either way, I would like more HP for my SVT...... Sure, it won't do #'s like my 92' Galant VR-4 or a Supercar Bugatti... but 300whp for a daily driver would be nice. I am not really a V8 muscle head, like a lot of people... but maybe a Turbo Supra rebuilt from the ground up would be very nice :) Just for the "every now N' then" weekend drive.



Thanks,


R.

Originally posted by Rory
Alright..

Tom.. a simple question. Let's say I have my 2.0 SVT motor still in my car. I do bottom end work to lower the compression. Use whatever brand of pistons/rods/etc (Eagle/Crower/Etc.) and do head work with porting. Ti retainers, valve springs, valves, all the works.. stage 1 - 2 head work. 3" exhaust (turbo back w/high flow cat), upgraded fuel pump, 660cc injectors (if need be) upgraded Camshafts (stage 1-2), ecu upgrade/program, 15-22psi, and your turbo kit..

What is your "guestimate" on HP/Tq. throughout the tach range along with Peak HP/Tq? And, while keeping my getrag, how badly would I need tp upgrade the internals to hold this kind of power? Would I need an ACT2600 clutch, flywheel/pressure plate or something stronger? Better axles (Raxles)?

R.

I would do the Clutchmasters STG4 clutch


Even tho it is information that im sure others want to know ,You need to IM me at " hpdyno " or email me at hpdyno@aol.com they tend to get fussy when i talk about my parts in here to much

The SVT ki on stock engine will make 326/331 at the wheels with higher Octane

No stock axles are fine

Tom

(Thinking Aloud) I think once I am done with my Focus project of 300whp, I will continue on with a Supra. Yea.. that's the ticket!



R.

Originally posted by Lupuri

Im saying that your baseline Dyno #s that your promoting your tune with are BS, dramaticaly lower then stock #s with FULL stock application...


I dont have a clue what you are talking about , Im guessing the SVT Predator tune , And by what you are saying you have been here and seen the dyno numbers, Show me the dyno you have seen of my STV Predator tune ,Or i did this on your car, Or are you pulling all of this out of your &$^

Tom

Some interesting sites I found dedicated to turbo's.

http://www.howstuffworks.com/turbo.htm

http://www.mkiv.com/buy_a_supra/turbo_basics&tips/index.html


http://www.turboclub.com/aturbo.htm



R.



"Go Bulls"

Just looked at the HP site and didnt see a thing for the SVT kit , Must of missed it

Tom

Nice !!!!

http://www.turbochargedpower.com/Turbo%20vs%20Blowers.htm

Turbocharger Vs. Supercharger (differences/similarities)

Good Read!



R.

Originally posted by 1turbofocus
Just looked at the HP site and didnt see a thing for the SVT kit , Must of missed it

Tom
Call them up....its not listed on the site...
Im not sure they would waste time with 12-11sec focus pushing 325hp when they have 6sec Mustangs.

Oh sheeet...my bad!

C'Mon.. what is with the verbal bashing of the Focus as well as Tom's turbo kit? I am not defending Tom or his product/s or arguing with you or anyone on this forum, BUT.... You are on here, so you must be interested with the Focus to some extent. Or, is the Mustang the "ONLY" car on the road?

Eitherway...


Tom, here is a CUSTOM turbo manifold you built for this person. Why not include the same design or a SIMILIAR design instead of the one that comes with your kit? So the turbo can spool slightly faster...?

http://www.svt-focus.com/turbo.htm



Also, I am out in Vegas.. so having a kit like Tom's installed in my Focus as well as tuned by him, would not be happening anytime soon (distance).

So, maybe I can have someone mach up a similiar one and install it and do the engine work as well out here, in Vegas, instead. Of course, when time & money allow for ths mod.




R.

rory i was talking to lupuri

(Jim Carey voice) Alrighty then....




R.

They show 11-12 Sec Mustangs on there seems like a 11- 12 Sec Focus would be far more impressive to there list

lupuri, Not sure what your problem is or why you have it ,You have never tryed my SVT tune or any of my other products so what gives

Rory that was a one off custom manifold ordered for a special customer with a large turbo

Tom

Tom, what other turbo is a good comparison to yours, DSM wise, something I can relate to.


I am used to the 14b, T25, 16g, 18g, 20g, Green & Red and the PTE 50 Trim. Or, Inlet/Outlet sizes as well as Wheel size. Is it Clipped? Turbo housing ported, etc..? Also, is your manifold a tube or cast manifold? Is there any room/need for porting for maximizing airflow?


Thanks again,


R.

hey tom u didnt answer my question, hows the turbo for the duratec comin

ProjectDeath69: He hasn't answered many of my other questions either, oh well :(



R.

Hey Tom,

That Turbonetics DeltaGate II Wastegate is only good for up to 9psi with the spring that comes with it? What if I want to run 20psi? ($235shipped)

http://www.racetep.com/tnetfmax.html

Complete turbo kits from $3,300 - $4,200

Patented Ceramic Ball Bearing Turbocharger (T3/T4 Hybrid or T04E)
* W.A.V.E. Technology Intercooler System
* Silver Powder Coated Piping
* High Pressure Silicone Hose and Heavy Duty T-Bolt Clamps
* Evolution External Wastegate
* Raptor By-Pass/Blow-Off Valve
* Exhaust Manifold - High Carbon Cast-Steel
* Fuel / Timing Controller (Fuel / Timing Management System)
* Additional Fuel Injectors
* Mandrel-Bent Downpipe with Closed-Loop Wastegate Discharge
* Intake System and K&N Air Filter
* All Necessary Hardware, Lines and Fittings
* Free Case of Turbonetics TS-1 Synthetic Motor Oil




Don't make one for the Focus/SVT, but still... All of this for ~$2,000 cheaper than Tom's kit.

Just wanted to point this out.



R.

Originally posted by Rory
Hey Tom,

That Turbonetics DeltaGate II Wastegate is only good for up to 9psi with the spring that comes with it? What if I want to run 20psi? ($235shipped)

http://www.racetep.com/tnetfmax.html

Complete turbo kits from $3,300 - $4,200

Patented Ceramic Ball Bearing Turbocharger (T3/T4 Hybrid or T04E)
* W.A.V.E. Technology Intercooler System
* Silver Powder Coated Piping
* High Pressure Silicone Hose and Heavy Duty T-Bolt Clamps
* Evolution External Wastegate
* Raptor By-Pass/Blow-Off Valve
* Exhaust Manifold - High Carbon Cast-Steel
* Fuel / Timing Controller (Fuel / Timing Management System)
* Additional Fuel Injectors
* Mandrel-Bent Downpipe with Closed-Loop Wastegate Discharge
* Intake System and K&N Air Filter
* All Necessary Hardware, Lines and Fittings
* Free Case of Turbonetics TS-1 Synthetic Motor Oil




Don't make one for the Focus/SVT, but still... All of this for ~$2,000 cheaper than Tom's kit.

Just wanted to point this out.

R.

Where do you get 2000 less than mine, even at 3300.00 its 1900 and at 4200 its 1000, Then add on things like

Injectors
Recal Mass air
Proper tuning
Oil pan with welded bung
Custom turbo properly sized for the Zetec and street use
Life time warranty on everything i make

Do all the kits you want to look at and do all the math it will be VERY hard to find a kit for less or find a kit that is better

The Duratech kit right now isnt doing much I am selling my SVT Turbo Focus to buy a Focus Dura

HP does NOT sell a Focus turbo kit of any type

Tom

Tom,

On your websit.. you list your SVT Turbo kit for $5,800 plus the price of install & tuning (I think $750+).

So, I just said I found this turbo kit for $3,200 - $4,200 (only 1 kist cost $4,200). Which comes with turbo & injectors. So, if you are selling your kit for $5,800 + install & tuning ($750 more). You would get a "Mass Air & Oil Pan w/welded bung" for only $2,400 - $2,500 more? Doesn't make sense to me.. unless I am missing some other awfully overpriced part.

You say "custom turbo for the Focus" Well, that isn't a big "woopy". Since, when you order your turbo from any vendor, you can select the proper trim and other items as well when "customizing" your own turbo.


http://www.focus-power.com/view.php?showme=SVT_Kit
Pricing:
$5800[:)][:)][:)][:)][:)][:)] (Not Installed)
Add $750 for Installation w/Dyno Tuning




Also, why not purchase or have a turbonetics turbo with an internal waste gate, so you don't need to have another charge of $300++ for an external wastegate? The PTE turbo I had, had an internal wastegate. No boost spikes at all... running up to 20psi or slightly more. Also, no need for a custom manifold either... totally eliminating the more expensinve manifold and external wastegate. Probably saving $400+. Just a suggestion.

Also, with the wastegate that comes with your turbo kit... It says that the spring is good for up to 9psi. What if I wanted to run more psi, would I have to go out and buy a better wastegate or can "YOU" put in a better spring when I order the kit for you to withstand up to 25psi?


Just suggestions and questions.. I am not trying to tear apart your kit what-so-ever...

If your kit is only $5,200... then might I suggest you change the price on your website. Thanks... Also, why not mention the CC's of the injectors you sell with the kit, or the brand name? I would like to know, so I am not buying RC injectors (crap imo), prefer Denso or better imo, better flow pattern.

Something a little more detailed on the kit would be a lot better for peoples own personal knowledge. When I ordered piece by piece for my upgraded turbo for my DSM's.. EVERY vendor said, Rc 500 ijectors, 660, 700, 720, etc.. or Denso ##'s, ##'s whatever.

Your site says 50lb injectors.. which is near 500cc's? Also, what about a Fuel Pump.. I am sure the STOCK SVT pump can't handle the needed fuel output that this kit will require. (just curious about the pump).




Thanks,

Gotta go.. Movie time...!



R.

Tom,

On your websit.. you list your SVT Turbo kit for $5,800 plus the price of install & tuning (I think $750+).
[:)][:)][:)][:)][:)][:)]*True

So, I just said I found this turbo kit for $3,200 - $4,200 (only 1 kist cost $4,200). Which comes with turbo & injectors. So, if you are selling your kit for $5,800 + install & tuning ($750 more). You would get a "Mass Air & Oil Pan w/welded bung" for only $2,400 - $2,500 more? Doesn't make sense to me.. unless I am missing some other awfully overpriced part.
[:)][:)][:)][:)][:)][:)]*You are missing a lot , That company adds a 5th or 6th injector depending on kit (or thats what they told me ), The SVT needs to change ALL 4 of the stock injectors to larger ones , then they dont change the mass air , this needs to be changed for a larger one to match the range of the now changed injectors , Then you need a chip to address the tuning

[:)][:)][:)][:)][:)][:)]*Then you looking at the cheapest turbo known to man the dreded t3t4 it cost less than half of the turbo i use and takes 2 times longer to spool up, then the kits your looking at are for Hondas, nissans ETC with low budget parts , I wont do that

You say "custom turbo for the Focus" Well, that isn't a big "woopy". Since, when you order your turbo from any vendor, you can select the proper trim and other items as well when "customizing" your own turbo.
[:)][:)][:)][:)][:)][:)]*I wont say much about my turbo and what it is other than a T3 S60 STG 3 Custom


http://www.focus-power.com/view.php?showme=SVT_Kit
Pricing:
$5800[:)][:)][:)][:)][:)][:)] (Not Installed)
Add $750 for Installation w/Dyno Tuning

Also, why not purchase or have a turbonetics turbo with an internal waste gate, so you don't need to have another charge of $300++ for an external wastegate? The PTE turbo I had, had an internal wastegate. No boost spikes at all... running up to 20psi or slightly more. Also, no need for a custom manifold either... totally eliminating the more expensinve manifold and external wastegate. Probably saving $400+. Just a suggestion.
[:)][:)][:)][:)][:)][:)]*Dont like the internal waste gates and feel the external wastegates work much better and are safer , Look at all your high end quality kits and there external for a reason

Also, with the wastegate that comes with your turbo kit... It says that the spring is good for up to 9psi. What if I wanted to run more psi, would I have to go out and buy a better wastegate or can "YOU" put in a better spring when I order the kit for you to withstand up to 25psi?
[:)][:)][:)][:)][:)][:)]*3 springs come with the kit , up to 15PSI , If you need more than that you will need a boost controller


Just suggestions and questions.. I am not trying to tear apart your kit what-so-ever...
[:)][:)][:)][:)][:)][:)]*I dont have a problem with any of these questions

If your kit is only $5,200... then might I suggest you change the price on your website. Thanks... Also, why not mention the CC's of the injectors you sell with the kit, or the brand name? I would like to know, so I am not buying RC injectors (crap imo), prefer Denso or better imo, better flow pattern.
[:)][:)][:)][:)][:)][:)]*The ZX3 kit is the SVT kit is the price listed above

Something a little more detailed on the kit would be a lot better for peoples own personal knowledge. When I ordered piece by piece for my upgraded turbo for my DSM's.. EVERY vendor said, Rc 500 ijectors, 660, 700, 720, etc.. or Denso ##'s, ##'s whatever.
[:)][:)][:)][:)][:)][:)]*I use the Ford Motorsport 42`s and the Simon Deca 50`s

Your site says 50lb injectors.. which is near 500cc's? Also, what about a Fuel Pump.. I am sure the STOCK SVT pump can't handle the needed fuel output that this kit will require. (just curious about the pump).
[:)][:)][:)][:)][:)][:)]*Nope the SVT pump holds 326HP and 331TQ at the wheels on my car and has for 3 years now and hundreds of miles on a road course doing it

Tom

Originally posted by 1turbofocus
The Duratech kit right now isnt doing much I am selling my SVT Turbo Focus to buy a Focus Dura

Selling the SVT? Any idea what asking price is going to be?

Yea shoot me an email hpdyno@aol.com

Tom

Tom,

So, you are saying that your ZX3 & SVT Turbo Kit are the same thing?
[:)][:)][:)][:)][:)][:)]*The ZX3 kit is the SVT kit is the price listed above (which would be $5,200). If that is the case, then what is $5,800 (a different SVT turbo kit? I am not 100% clear. Although, I do see that the ZX3 kit comes with 42lb injectors Vs. the 50lb injectors with the Other SVT kit. Any clarification would be nice on these 2 kits.


As far as a 15psi spring beig the max, no doubt I would need to buy a boost controller. I would never go without one, as well as nice gauges (Loved my Defi's)


From what I gather on this Dyno Run: http://www.focus-power.com/images/zeteckit/3_large.jpg

That is on a stock engine??? Would those #'s increase with lowered compression, head work as well as improved cams?



Thanks,


R.

I can't find anything online about Simon Deca injectors....



Thanks,


R.

You have the prices correct

There is the ZX3 kit , 42`s (cannot say pricing on here )

There is the SVT kit ,50`s (cannot say pricing on here )

I agree anything over 10PSI needs a boost controller

Yes that is my dynos on the stock kit , WITH higher Octane fuel

Lower Compression wouldnt realy raise the HP/TQ but would give you the ability to run higher HP/TQ on STD fuel (91-93)

Tom

What.. you can't say prices on here....? If you go to your website, you have all the prics there. Oh well,

(Psst, Yo, Tom.. So..what kind of special deal can you work with me on the svt kit?) :)

Does your kit come with a BOV? If not, I like the RFL (very loud for all the ricers out there), or the twin chambered Apex-i.


So, if I get your kit... what else do I need, besides a clutch upgrade... tranny internals (beefier)? Also, you say I can run 300 - 323 (or whatever) whp on the STOCK SVT engine I have in my car right this second...? I am only going to run whatever the highest fuel the westcoast has, and that is only 92octane :( I used to have access to the 93 in Chicago.


Going with the 50lb injectors on the SVT kit will not max out at 25psi? I know that I needed 660 Denso's (4) on my Galant VR-4, otherwise I would have maxed out the injectors performance. Some people even told me to do 700+. Then again... I was using a PTE 50 trim capable of 500+whp, so I needed that extra fuel.

What about the downpipe... Does that mate up with the stock exhaust (cat-back)? Can I get the Random Tech high-flo cat (example) to mate directly to the downpipe that comes with your kit?





Thanks again,



R.



!!!! I like how this has turned from a Supercharger capable of 300whp, to TOMS TURBO segment !!!! :)

Wouldn't I need a better wastegate to hold (example) 20+psi, even if I have a boost controller? I would hate to hit 15psi, then all of a sudden, have the gate open and release my extra 5+ I thought I would be using.




R.

this thread is getting old lol

Kind of like you!! :) joke.
In essence, we are ALL getting older with time, like this thread.




R.

that was funny...

Ok guys basically u guys need to stop ripping on Tom for all of the had work that he has done to make a decent turbo kit for the SVTF. and Rory the stock fuel pump on the SVTF is bigger than the fuel pump that is on the Supercharged SVT Cobras...this means (if u cant understand") the stock SVTF fuel pump can easily support the 300+ hp that our focus' will put out.

Q.

Originally posted by SVT4U2NV
and Rory the stock fuel pump on the SVTF is bigger than the fuel pump that is on the Supercharged SVT Cobras...this means (if u cant understand") the stock SVTF fuel pump can easily support the 300+ hp that our focus' will put out.

Q.


I know plenty about the fuel pump.. and why on earth would a 2.0 need the capability to consume more fuel than a SVT Cobra? Strange that they would put in a fuel pump that powerful.





R.

The cobra pumps are rated at 320lph at 43 psi of fuel pressure(2 pumps each rated at 160lph) which is good for 500+whp.

The svt focus pump is rated at 255lph at 43 psi of fuel pressure which is good for 400whp.

All these pumps are returnless type not the return type in the old models,you should also know by adding boost(turbo or supercharger) to the equation you must rise the fuel pressure and by doing so the flow rate of the pump will be lower .

You can also check some mustang sites that are upgrading their stock fuel pump to the svt focus pump.[8D]

Yea.. a lot of DSM people upgrade to the 255lph fuel pumps.. As well as purchase a fuel pressure regulator.

I do not plan on going over ~300whp, so I am sure this stock SVT pump will be more than satisfactory for my application.




R.

Breaking 300 whp with the Vortech and aftermarket tuning is a piece of cake, assuming you run higher octane gas. I'm seeing 290 whp now on 91 octane at 18 degrees of advance and a pretty agressive tune. I even still have the stock cat on there. Same stock boost level, more octane, and some more timing equals easy 300 whp. Or probably just slapping on the ORP would push it over the 300 level... but why? This is a daily driver and I'm more than happy with its current level.

To do 280-300 whp safely you *will* need a bigger fuel pump or go with a Kenne Bell Boost-a-pump, upgraded MAF, and at least 55# injectors. A 3" exhaust gets to probably be useful near those numbers as well.

Hey Slick nice numbers. What are your torque #'s for the 290whp??

According to his dyno sheet 203wtq

I bought this M90 supercharger for my last car - 1992 Nissan Maxima SE, and had plans for the intake manifold drawn, but the engine gave me hell as time went on and the Machinist took up and left town along with the great deal he was gonna give me. So... here it sits in a box ready to be unleashed on a new beast.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v320/1989maxman/SC1VElowerintake.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v320/1989maxman/SC2VElowerintake.jpg

Like mentioned earlier there is a certain person who fabbed up a similarly designed intake manifold as the design I had planned for my Maxima.
http://www.geocities.com/teamcatalystracing/zx2/haha/index.htm

http://www.geocities.com/teamcatalystracing/zx2/haha/manifoldbottom2small.jpg

Intake manifold

http://www.geocities.com/teamcatalystracing/zx2/haha/blowerinstalled.jpg

Looks something like this installed.

Me having fun with autocad making myself the maxima intake inlet runner template:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v320/1989maxman/marketingtoniches-nissan/intake.jpg

So yeh... there are a lot of kits out there, tuning/engine management is available it is just a matter of aquiring the remaining parts I need and also having enough downtime to work out the kinks of such an install, aka I need to stop working for a bit since this is the daily driver.

Brian[thumb]