I guess it shouldn't surprise me, it's a Focus (cheap to begin with) and a Ford, but oh man is the pricing disappointing on this car. I just checked KBB.com because what I really want is a new 2005 Mustang GT in Legend Lime and I wanted some idea of how a trade might work. Not so well apparently. [rolleyes] Even with only 21,500 miles (which is good for a nearly three-year-old car) and some options to boot, the value breaks down as such for me:

Dealer trade-in value: $9,550

Private party value: $11,070_

Since I bought it lightly used in January of 03, I haven't been paying it down for very long. Sadly I have more to pay off than it's valued at trade-in! Negative equity. Might as well not trade it in.

Dammit. I guess there's no way around the fact that I'm not going to get into a new Mustang for another year or two.

I think that applys to all domestics and not just the Focus/Ford alone...do you think its a good idea to get a first year car...esp Fords? There's a huge tranny recall right now for the Explorer.

Anytime you buy a car with unlimited production and a low price like a focus or cavalier, you get poor resale value. A trade off is you didn't pay list to begin with. My mom bought a mini and had to pay list for it.

Well I guess I will NOT be getting a first year car... [:D] generally it's not a good idea but I have a feeling this car was very important to Ford and they did their homework before releasing it. I hope. But if not, hey, by the time I can get one they will have the kinks worked out. [thumb]

You're right about all domestics. They have lower prices to begin with, and since people are leery of the reliability of domestics their values are hurt by that too on the used car market. I don't WANT to get rid of this car but if it had provided a decent trade-in value I would have dropped it in a second.

Oh, and d3bilhan, the SVT isn't unlimited production - but unfortunately in this case that has no bearing on it's resale value, it might as well just be a "regular" Focus as far as value guides are concerned.

BTW, the transmission is new, but it is a Tremec.

when Ford drops the rebates on the focus, then the value of the cars will go up. Hard to justify buying used (the people who would buy your trade in focus) when you get a better interest rate for a new car, and the rebates make a new car a lot cheaper. I traded my 03 focus for a 05 ST, and had about $2700 negitive equity, but with the deal I got I still payed less than sticker for the new one. The extra price might be worth taking to get a new GT!!

Until Ford learns how to make cars right the first time, they will continue to devalue like rocks, and large scale production has nothing to do with it, look at Honda or Toyota resales on Civic or Corolla.

The Focus has a horrible, deserved bad reputation for the 00-01s, but that makes getting a used 02 or 03 a bargain. 03 SVt for $9,550 is a bargain.

I never buy new, the guy I bought my Focus from for $12KCDN paid $25K for it 24 months earlier, and he only put on 18,000 miles. Look for a used Mustang a year from now, it will have problems, they always do.

Well see the thing is I've always bought used too - I'm tired of buying someone else's car. I want a NEW car, that only I and the handlers who get it to the dealer have driven. Special-ordered, not one from the lot. So yeah... a used 05 Stang is out of the question. Yes it will be a big hit to my finances but I'm mildly like that crazy OCD guy on the Supra forums, I would feel much better about the car knowing it's not someone else's sloppy seconds.

I knew going into buying the Focus that it wasn't going to be a stellar resale value but all the same it was an eye opener to see how MUCH it's dropped already. That's why I posted this.

The OCD guy from the supra fourms. :lol:

"Good research on resale values I owe you, hey if im in the area i'll buy you lunch."

Well I think Ford has came a long ways since the escort/Probe years.
My 02 just hit 75,000 miles with one service light for a faulty sensor.
It handels sweet, still jumps to over a 100 in 4th no problem!
I like the 02 SE body and parts will be easy to find!

BESIDES I RATHER BUY USA AND KEEP MY NEIGHBOR WORKIN!!!

resale value for like anything sucks lol....a dealer will rip you off anyway possible

BTW, SVT, find a friend that works for Ford or Hertz.
They have a program where that friend can give you the rights to an X plan which should be a couple of thousand off of list on the Mustang.

I feel your pain man! I was getting ready to trade my SVT in for an EVO (I work for a division of Mitsubishi so I get a discount), but I was way in over my head. So, I decided to sink even more money into my black hole and I ordered a supercharger[:p]

Originally posted by d3bilhan
BTW, SVT, find a friend that works for Ford or Hertz.
They have a program where that friend can give you the rights to an X plan which should be a couple of thousand off of list on the Mustang.

yeah my friend wants to trade in his '02 mustang for a new one, and he plans on doing that. we both have a good friend that works at the local dealer, and he's gonna look into that a.s.a.p. can save you a good bit of money [thumb]

i to want a new GT mustang and disapointed in the private party price i only have 19500 miles on my 02 and thats about the same price that KBB has on their site as your car. im debating whether or not to wait for the 06's now but then the damn price on the car is only gonna drop to prolly 9grand.

i dunno if ill ever buy another "new" car again, for this reason, and after looking at all the money i spent just on this one, i could have had two or three other cars for the same price, theyd beused and older but you get what you pay for

The main reason I bought a used Focus was because it was a great value. My car was a few months out of the factory and I paid 9k for it. You really can't beat that for a practically new car. The rate I got from my credit union was awesome too.
But hey, you only live once, so maybe you should just do it. How upside down are you?
That green color is awesome.

I forget exactly what the final price I settled on with the dealer was - it was somewhere around 13,500-14,000 and I still have just a little over 10,000 left to pay on that. I could have gotten very good financing if I had let a parent co-sign but I didn't, so I'm getting screwed on that end.

KBB rates the trade-in at 9,550. So it's not a huge gap... but it was enough to make the payment calculator on Ford's website stop and tell me I was a [:)][:)][:)][:)][:)][:)][:)] and ask me if I was sure I wanted to continue. [hihi]

Oh my God, you know what? I just went out to the garage and pulled out the sale contract, I'm really remembering the numbers wrong. Total amount financed was 14,855 with a 1,500 trade-in. Now I remember though how they worked it, the trade-in was worth next to nothing (a few hundred dollars at most) and in one of those typical dealership moves they said "we're going to be nice though and value your trade-in at 1,500." Of course what they really did was just knock about 1,200 off the asking price of the car but hey, I'm not complaining. In January of 03 less than $15,000 for an 02 with 10k miles was still a good price.

Originally posted by Frag2win


BESIDES I RATHER BUY USA AND KEEP MY NEIGHBOR WORKIN!!!

ZX3s are assembled in Mexico. I'd like to think this way, but my neighbor has to learn how to make cars properly first. My neighbors in Oakville made the Windstar, a vehicle so bad the ford dealers had to petition a name change to Freestar for the next version, which isn't selling.

I wanted a used 03 SVT but the dealer refused to budge on the price of $19,500CDN, the book value was $11,500CDN, which is what the poor guy who traded in got. The dealer expects to make $8000 on resale. They make much more profit on resales than they do on new cars. Not bad for sitting behind a formica desk drinking coffee all day.

Ouch on the Minivan.

Just wait till '07 and save your pennies. I have heard rummors of a Cobra. Anyone know about it?

I find it odd that and svt is only valued at 9950, when my se(o1) was valued at 9,775

To avoid negative equity, I figured it will take at least 4 years of monthly payments for me to even consider another car without losing out. It's a good thing I like this car. lol.

I'm poor so we're in it for the long haul. Well at least till 2008 that is. Maybe the RS would have made it to our shores by then.

Good luck man! I know the GT is a beast but your current car kicks ass too.

well, if you just hang on to your SVTf soon it'll be a classic, and you wouldnt want to know that you traded it in for a mustang that is most likely to have problems considering its a first year release.

Basically, car depreciation starts at the dealer's invoice cost. So if your car cost 24,000 and the dealer is making on average 2,500 to 4,000 on it, basically your car depreciated that much as soon as you signed the paperwork. Then, to make matters even worse, the domestic companies put huge rebates on their vehicles at the end of the year to clear them out. That makes your car worth even less. So if you buy your car at the beginning of the model year, you are a couple thousand more in the hole than someone that bought the same vehicle at the end of the year. This also makes it almost impossible for you to not buy a domestic vehicle again, because you need the rebate to cancel some of your negatice equity. Look at Toyota and Honda, the biggest rebate toyota has offered all year has been $1000, and that was only for a month. Also, Toyotas and Hondas tend to have less mark up in them, which means the initial depreciation that occurs is going to be less severe. That is why toyotas and hondas have consistently higher resale value.

Originally posted by jboylan
That is why toyotas and hondas have consistently higher resale value.

That is one reason, quality is another. It's hard to retain resale value when recalls are in the press almost every month for some cars. When the quality and reliability rating of a Toyota exceeds all Mercedes, that really helps resale.

The other problem is new car inflated prices due to rentals (or leases), renters have driven up the price of cars over the last ten years.

I will keep mine until I get her paid off and then get a truck, I have had mine since August of '03 and I have paid at least $1500 extra towards paying her off, last time I checked my account I am 3 or 4 payments ahead. After seeing the '05 Stang in person...I dont know...$22K for a V-6 and $28K for a GT when a local Ford dealer has their '04 GT's for $18900.

But it's not really fair to compare the 04 to the 05, is it? The price is deep discounted on the 04's because now that the 05's are out no one wants the older ones. It's not just a new model year Mustang, it's a NEW Mustang. The GT's performance in the 05 is much improved over the 04 GT (the new GT has 300hp and Motor Trend got an ATX model to go 0-60 in 5.1 seconds). First new interior in 10 years, first completely redesigned Mustang in 25 years.

Worth it if you ask me - that's why I want one! [hihi] I've looked at the 04's and I've had a brief look at the 05's, and they're not even close to being equals - the 04 looks cheap and plain inside, and the styling looks awkward on the outside. Most magazines are calling the new Mustang the best "bang for the buck" car short of the Corvette, and some have even said they had more fun driving the Mustang than the Corvette.

You're right, its not fair to compare an '04 to an '05. Are dealers in your area marking them up?

Probably. Actually, yes they are... I searched inventory over the internet and the only models that dealers have in stock are the base V6 models. Some dealers are asking MSRP and some are asking several thousand dollars more. So I would guess that they would try to mark up a GT for sure.

BTW I don't have anything *against* the 04, just that if I'm going to give up the Focus for a Mustang, I want it to be the new one since it's so much better.

Keep the SVT and enjoy the gas mileage, cheaper car insurance and DMV renew. Mustang ownership should wait until you can afford to just drive on weekends and trips.

Originally posted by SVT4ME
Well I guess I will NOT be getting a first year car... [:D] generally it's not a good idea but I have a feeling this car was very important to Ford and they did their homework before releasing it. I hope. But if not, hey, by the time I can get one they will have the kinks worked out. [thumb]
.

Only problem is Ford fails their homework.

Man, i have a Canadian 2000 Ford Focus wagon SE(zetec, auto, 15inch alloy, etc) and 55000kms on it! Everything in good conditions! How much do you think is worth?

I agree with you totally SVT4ME. The resale on my 2003 Focus blew so bad. It depreciatted more than 50% in only one year. Most cars depreciat the most in the first year of ownership but still not over 50%. I ended up with $2500 in negative equity but it was all worth it in the end for me. I would of had a new mustang if it was my choice but my location is what made my choice for an AWD car. Besides when I have this one paid off the 2010 Cobra is gonna rule all!!!

the only reason ford or chevy have horrible trade in values is because every freakin week there is a huge 3000 rebate you save when you buy the car. The car will never be worth what it says it is because of this. Anytime they give away something or put on a rebate thats x amount of money lost for a trade in. Thats the only reason why hondas and almost all foreign cars for that matter are so cheap. No rebates almost ever. If you want a car that holds its value go foreign if you want an awesoem car buy a ford :) get screwed by trade ins but its a damn good car :)
-Joe

Exactly what I said before. The most your car is ever worth, trade in wise, is whatever the invoice cost was to the dealer. Even on a cheap car like the focus, ford still makes about $3500 if that vehicle is sold at sticker. On top of that, you have to add in the average reconditioning cost on a used vehicle which is usually around $700. So, before you even drive the car off the lot, its value has dropped over $4000 from whatever the sticker says. And on a focus, that's more than 20% of the sticker price. Also, with Hondas and Toyotas, they don't have as much mark up, which means that their invoice costs are closer to their sticker prices. This means that their depreciation starts at a higher dollar amount, on a corolla you have less than $2000 of mark up. And since Hondas and Toyotas practically sell themselves (I've been selling toyotas for a little over a year and a half), its pretty rare to see a bunch of leftover inventory on one of their lots. Honda and Toyota are ALOT more efficient when it comes to production, they are very good at gauging demand. That's one of the main reasons that they don't have to offer huge rebates at the end of the model year. We have a Ford dealership in our dealership group. At the end of the 2004 model year, the Toyota Tundra had $1500 worth of rebates, while the F-150 had $5500 worth of rebates. These huge rebates and poor resale value almost force people to continue buying domestics, because they need the big rebates to cover up their negative equity.

Originally posted by DrRay
ZX3s are assembled in Mexico. I'd like to think this way, but my neighbor has to learn how to make cars properly first. My neighbors in Oakville made the Windstar, a vehicle so bad the ford dealers had to petition a name change to Freestar for the next version, which isn't selling.

hmmmm interesting, my parents had a 96 windstar and with the exception of a recall for some electronic gizmo, and a batter terminal clamp that broke, never had the slightest problem with it. it was totally reliable and had 160K miles on it at trade in.
last year they traded it in on a new 03 windstar ( X plan saved them 8 grand!!) and this one so far is proving to be just as reliable as the old one.

Here is my advice on the mustang.

I am drooling over this car. To me it looks soooooo good. I remember seeing the first one in person. IT was about 9 pm and the was a green one in the show room at my local dealership. The place was close but no gates on the lot so I drove up to the window. Just happened that the last salemans was leaving and it didn't take him 5 sec to figure out that i was looking at the stang. He said that got it earlier that day and they havent even whiped off the marks on the glass yet. I drove by again at 12 noon the next day. It was already sold.

That made me realize something.... there is no way i can get a good deal on stang this year... none. Everyone wants one and the dealers know it. So I think it is better to wait a year or so before buying unless you want to be the first guy with one.

Originally posted by 2000FordFocus
Man, i have a Canadian 2000 Ford Focus wagon SE(zetec, auto, 15inch alloy, etc) and 55000kms on it! Everything in good conditions! How much do you think is worth?

Canadian black book is CDN$6800-8300. However, many dealers cannot sell 2000s and are selling them off-lot.
I've seen them sold by owner for CDN$7500-8500.

Originally posted by penske
hmmmm interesting, my parents had a 96 windstar and with the exception of a recall for some electronic gizmo, and a batter terminal clamp that broke, never had the slightest problem with it. it was totally reliable and had 160K miles on it at trade in.
last year they traded it in on a new 03 windstar ( X plan saved them 8 grand!!) and this one so far is proving to be just as reliable as the old one.

You're lucky. Accordong to Consumer Reports warranty and reliability data, it's a lemon. Fair to poor rankings in every catagory, especially 1996. This is what informed people look at before buying.

Three major recalls for fire hazards, fluid leaks (brakes, transmission), and of course, corroding springs (a Ford problem since 1995).

Originally posted by sirdrums
Here is my advice on the mustang.

.....

That made me realize something.... there is no way i can get a good deal on stang this year... none. Everyone wants one and the dealers know it. So I think it is better to wait a year or so before buying unless you want to be the first guy with one.

You're absolutely right. Sales will be very high, which means a lot of used sales in only 24 months. A little patience and you will save enough on purchase to buy the car, and mod it they way you want.