: Ford Customer Service / That key thing
11-28-2004, 01:29 PM
I had my ignition lock up in January of this year. The dealer where I happened to be that day repaired it. $300.00
In October I was in the mid-Cities and it did it again. ($450) I had it dragged to a different dealership. Basically it was over 12K miles. I tried to contact the "Customer satisfaction line." They were curt and pointed. The Indian csr (I am told she was in Toronto, but...) was pointed almost like she was annoyed that I was so stupid to ask her for anything. HER COMPUTER SAID TOUGH!
Eight days later, it happened again. THis time I was at home. The dealership nearest me tried to fix it, but had to call the HOTLINE and replaced the next higher assembly. Since they changed a different part, no warranty on the repairs. ($300) The dealership suggested I call the Customer Satisfaction Center.
This time, I got a north American CSR. He put it in the computer it again said "I have nothing to offer you today." He repeated this SEVERAL TIMES. When I questioned the EIGHT DAYS, he repeated it. He never said WHY or much else. When I asked to speak to a supervisor, he FIRST told me it would make no difference. Then when I insisted, he puts me on hold and tells me his supervisor is not available. Actually he said " NO ACTUALLY YOU CANNOT TALK TO HER. " THEN he told me she was not at her desk. When querrid he said she could call me back within the next 24 to 72 hours. I said OK.
Meanwhile the dealership here in town is trying to help. (as an aside, they only sell Ford Trucks and likely will stop that once the current inventory is sold.) I have no idea on that before Monday.
Back to the customer Satisfaction Center: Today she did call me back. She explained it was a PART warranty. I understand this, but at the same time... It is exactly the same proplem. She was much more professional than ANYONE I had spoken to at that number previously. She was courteous. SHe was as direct as the others I spoke to . Her answer was still EXACTLY the same as before, but at least she did listen. She did not act like I was some sort of IDIOT she had to listen to.
The bottom line is that while I was FINALLY treated courteously, it was still deemed tough.
AS a suggestion (actually from the guy who was so pointed and rude). The dealership needs to ascertain if warranty exists. If you have work done, do not pay for the rework until you have AT LEAST talked to the service manager (NOT the service advisor) if not the warranty clerk. If they deny warranty on the repairs make them tell you in writing why and who decided. The bottom line is that the dealership who does the rework has the best shot at getting you warranty. In the current environment absent a satisfaction PROGRAM (which evidently there is not one for the ignition switch on my car) there is no one you can ever hope to talk to who has the discretion to do anything for you. It is purely a business decision.
This takes away one of the biggest reasons for going to Ford Authorized Service dealers; the idea Ford will stand behind the repairs and the dealership will do it right the first time. Evidently this was not done right the first time and when they muffed it since they changed a different part,........
I will add one thing. If everyone who has this problem complains to NTSB, they perhaps will try to help us out. I am going to wait until the Monday thing is done, but....
11-28-2004, 08:27 PM
So there are no other Ford dealers in your area? Sucks that you had to deal with some bad CSR...I've called Ford a few times and was treated very courteous. Keep us posted on the fix.
11-30-2004, 02:17 AM
They were curteous until you refused to accept the finality of their decree. It is not so much the way they treated me, but the finality of the computer generated decision. A person has yet to consider any of it.
By the way if you have this problem and get no satisfaction from Ford complain to NTSB. If you complain make sure you have the VIN as well as the other info. Without the VIN, they can easily say they cannot identify the complaint.
There are several complaints about this on the NTSB site, but none have the VIN.
11-30-2004, 10:01 AM
I've had my fare share of problems with Ford dealers and the Customer Satisfaction Center. I love my Focus and my Expedition but some of these dealers really suck and when I called Ford they tell me the dealers are privately owned so I have to take my problem up with the dealer. Pretty pointless to call when all they do is send me back to the dealer that I'm already frustrated with.
I must admit the dealer near my office has gotten better. I think I wasn't the only one they were pissing off. Now every time you go they ask you to feel out a little satisfaction survey and the service reps are pretty concerned about how you fill it out.
12-02-2004, 05:02 AM
My problem is more with the Customer Satisfaction Center than the dealership. While the dealership may have muffed this issue, they did follow the letter of the law.
This said, Ford has gotten away from having people making COMMON SENSE decisions to having a very rigid and strictly enforced computer decision making system.
I guess I will complain to NTSB even though this is not a SAFETY issue.
12-02-2004, 06:00 AM
Sounds like a job for US Postal?
How can the lock go bad so many times?
12-02-2004, 10:54 PM
If the ignition lock was replaced with a new one, I don't believe it would fail right away. IMO They probably just tried to fix it.
ALWAYS ask to get your old parts back in advance when having your car serviced!
12-03-2004, 04:07 PM
The second dealer did the repair that he did correctly. The problem is thta while the part they replaced fixed the problem for the short term, the real problem was deeper.
It is kind of like you have mold on your wall. You clean it up and it looks all good. Months later it returns. At some point you realize the problem is moisture INSIDE the wall.
In this case the part was poorly engineered.
In the original shop manual, there was not a proceedure for this repair. The dealership had to remove the steering column and ship it back to the the factory to be remanufactured. Then after the problem started happing over and over, they wrote a TSB on how to repair it. Now as these cars are aging (my DOM is in April 1999.) even that fix is no longer working.
So to answer your question this was unanticipated by even Ford. They were as shocked as you seem to be. They were shocked enough that they used a different part by the late production 2001. In spite of the shock, their decision is to let us hang out.
My biggest problem with all of this is that NOONE has any discretion to do anything except say tough!
12-31-2004, 03:11 AM
Tough, Tough, Tough
The local dealership is as perplexed by Ford's decision as I am> She thinks there may be some sort of decision that they are not gonna fix anything else on those early Foci unless they are forced to.
I can tell you that just the recalls and customer satisfaction programs on mine have cost in excess of 50 manhours plus the parts. If you figure that Ford gives the dealerships from $35 to $50 per manhour for these repairs that puts the cost on my car at at least $1800 dollars. As I remember I gave below dealer invoice on it (after the rebates). (Sticker was ~17,500 I gave just over $13K for it after the rebates. I had paid $350.00 for the tradein and driven it for a year so while it looked good on paper, it was functionally ZERO.) Mine was an expensive model. The bottom line is that every penny of profit they made on these cars has gone into the recalls. While I believe the sunk costs are negligible and the PR of making these cars right should be a good business decision, I can see why they are doing what they are doing.
I have just two complaints. Why did they engineer these cars so poorly and why have they struggled with this problem as long as they have.
01-19-2005, 06:59 PM
Did he Focus
Every time I look at your post on the ignition switch thread, it hacks me off.
First I admit I did not get the original part back, but I did get the Virtually NEw one they removed the second time. SO there was a new part indeed put in. As far as that goes, I could see the shiny new ring where a pretty scuffed up part had been when they did it each time.
If you are shocked about how it failed three times you should be me. I even moreso am bewildered at their reticience to at least make the middle repair good.
I trusted the dealer service before this. I believed that if they did it wrong they would at least stand behind it. They didn't. They placed responsibility on Ford.
01-19-2005, 09:27 PM
Mine get stuck every so often, especially in colder days! what i do is just leave the key in the ignition, and lock the doors... when using it, i just use the remote to open it! for some reason, the key will come out the next time i shut off the car!!! i had gotten use to it!
04-18-2005, 02:18 PM
I wrote to the top Brass at ford in January and I still do not have a reply.
This is real old. I realize no is no, but I STILL to this day do not have a written reply from anyone and I have written three letters.
05-17-2005, 02:30 PM
Well the person I wrote to left FOrd in April they returned the last letter I sent them (sent 2 weeks ago more or less)> I re-sent it to his replacement. I still have not gotten a response from them in anything on paper. Nothing
05-17-2005, 02:31 PM
By the way, my neighbor had hers draggged away for the same problem yesterday....
05-24-2005, 06:13 PM
Move it to the top. Everybody needs to see it! LOL
05-24-2005, 06:57 PM
Is this happening when you are moving? The NHTSB only cares about safety-related items. If this problem is not a safety-related issue, you're wasting your time with the NHTSB.
05-25-2005, 08:58 PM
No it is not happening while it is moving. It usually happens while the car is parked. It coulf (theoretically) jam if you put the car intp park to restart if if it stalled, but that is a stretch. I think the idea is to make a large quantity of complaints to say hey ! Listen!
I have spent 4X more on these ignition switch repairs than it saved me on insurance through the life of the car. I have spent more than I have in total other repairs on the car (except for tires and other routine maintainance items). I have replaced the alternator, struts and ball joints, and even the brake redo. Yes, they have done huge numbers of things under recall and customer satisfaction programs.
I have been told if your car has less than 100K miles and is not five years past initial retail delivery that they can and will work with you on this issue.
As to the question why I sent it to three different dealerships, the car was 45 miles from here when I had it locked up the first time. It was 60 miles in the opposite direction the second (nearly 100 miles from the first repairing dealer), and was in my driveway when it did it the last time. So towing it to the dealer who did the previous repair was impracticable.
As to repairing it myself. I likely could have. At the time I firmly believed that PATS prevented the DIY repair. People have assured me since that the ignition cylinder is passive to PATS so after you rekey the cylinder that the original keys will still activate PATS.
For those of you who have this problem now or in the future, there is a redesigned key cylinder that is being sold for these 2000 & early 2001 cars. The third time mine was replaced with this one. So repeated replacement is hopefully a thing of the past.
Now to one part of the problem. KEYS. New unprogrammed PATS keys are available both from FORD and from sources noted on other posts on this forum. Getting new keys cut as soon as you have the ignition switch up and running is to be suggested. Getting one cut by the dealership using the notch codes (as opposed to copying the current one) would be even better but markedly more expensive.
05-26-2005, 11:44 PM
"Getting one cut by the dealership using the notch codes (as opposed to copying the current one) would be even better but markedly more expensive."
Interestingly, I am mail ordering a few accessories from a Ford dealer about 60 miles from where I live. I asked about getting a spare key made, and he said he could make one for $20 if I just gave him the key codes (and then match the chip to the car myself using the proceedure in the owner's manual). As the local dealer was quoting $30 for a spare key cut by copying my key, it doesn't seem that this "mail order" dealer is charging any premium to cut using notch codes, rather than directly copying my key.
Perhaps it has to do with the particular key cutting equipment a dealer has in his dealership.
06-13-2005, 04:29 PM
No it is more likely the idea that the dealer on the net is not charging minimum labor charges.
10-20-2005, 03:34 PM
They never have replied to my letters. It seems that the initial CSC decision is final and no amount of knocking it up the chain will change anything.
10-20-2005, 07:28 PM
when it locks up, tap the end of the key with a blunt object
mine still has PLENTY of warantee left, but no time to take it
but I just tap it from the end of the key and wiggle and it starts
now if I just wiggle a bit it works fine,
the first time it happend I almost had the dealer pick it up
then I hit it and BAM it worked
I need to take it to get that done too