I got my oil changed yesterday [poke]and had a tire rotation done. The dude asked me if I was interested in a nitrogen tire inflation at an additional cost... I declined. The guy told me the benefits were exceptional pressure balance over time and improved fuel economy.

Thoughts?

[wrenchin]

just hope your vehicle never starts on fire[xx(]

http://www.getnitrogen.org/why/

Proper tire pressure is a big deal.
Maintain it with nitrogen, and you'll see
these three primary benefits:


Increased Fuel Efficiency – Correct tire pressure keeps the manufacturer's recommended “contact patch” on the road. This lessens the rolling resistance and maximizes fuel efficiency. Read On...


Longer Tire Life – When it comes in contact with other materials, oxygen causes oxidation. Oxidation can make rubber brittle and cause it to lose tensile strength. In addition, at high temperatures and pressures, oxygen reacts and damages inner tire liners and belt packages; nitrogen does not.



Increased Safety – Under-inflated tires cause 90% of blowouts. Nitrogen provides more reliable pressure for reduced blowout potential. Read On...

just hope your vehicle never starts on fire[xx(]


Nitrogen isn't dangerous. Were you thinking of Hydrogen?


Think of it this way, the air you breath is mostly nitrogen. The only benefits pure nitrogen has is that its less susceptible to pressure changes as it heats and cools so theoretically you don't need to check tire pressure as much. Nitrogen has proven to be very good on the race track where consistent pressures are far more critical. Nitrogen can, however, still be lost through minute leaks caused by wheel porosity, valve stems, the bead, punctures, etc. so it still has to be checked. What do you do when it does get low? Pay again to have it topped off. Most people just end up topping off with regular compressed air. If you regularly check your tire pressures, nitrogen fills will be of minimal benefit for the normal street driven car. Sorry to say, but I think it's a passing fad. Not too many reputable tire shops push it very much any more.

very interesting, I hear if you live in Alaska with the severe temp, that it is recommended.

If they give you Nitrogen for free, then do it. However, normal air is already over 70% nitrogen. As usual, I'm with Geezer here.

How much is this ??

besides, who wants ugly green valve caps? lol

I just use air. I could care less. I have a portable air compressor that runs off a 12v outlet. Tires get low I add air for free. I also keep a pressure gauge in my car car at all times and check every week or 2 or if there is a temp change that is dramatic. Never really cared for nitrogen because if your tire does get low you would have to take it to the tire place to have them top it off every time to keep the pure nitrogen benefits.

very interesting, I hear if you live in Alaska with the severe temp, that it is recommended.

Being that I DO live here in Alaska, I still haven't used nitrogen. I see where it would be beneficial, but I will not pay a penny for something that allows me to be lazy. I would say checking your tire pressure regularly is not hard and more cost effective. (on a side note... What severe temperatures are you talking bout?)[scratch]

Although If you were driving a track car, I see more of a benefit to using nitrogen. No need to worry bout pressure increase or decrease due to temperature changes.

I worked with a mechanic in the old shop I worked at. The only difference he noticed with nitrogen was when he switched his winter to summer tires there was less corrossion build up on the wheel under the bead. This was his personal assessment, and outside nitro being a waste of money, I never heard any benefits.

Do any tracks even offer nitrogen?

Primary benefit is lack of moisture.
Most of the air compressors people top off their tires with have no moisture traps so we pump wet air into our tires.

Different gasses do leak out of tires at different rates, I know that using pure CO2 will seep out of tires in a few days. (didn't have compressor, had CO2 tank and regulator)

Do any tracks even offer nitrogen?
We used to always bring a Nitrogen tank and regulator for doing tires at the track, so did lots of other racers. Mostly for the convenience, compared to the bulky 120psi air tanks or trying to power a compressor.

Nitrogen fill ups are just like maintenance protection agreements, extended warranties and Monster power cables. All are schemes dreamed up by capitalists looking at ways to make more money by preying on the one thing that drives consumerism-fear.
All have some benefit but you have to look at the cost vs. benefit and make an informed decision.

The nitrogen is definitely better for people with chrome wheels. it does help prevent corrosion

Nitrogen fill ups are just like maintenance protection agreements, extended warranties and Monster power cables. All are schemes dreamed up by capitalists looking at ways to make more money by preying on the one thing that drives consumerism-fear.
All have some benefit but you have to look at the cost vs. benefit and make an informed decision. ...

Your a Canadian -

Belle Tire does mine with nitrogen by default, no extra charge.

They don't use compressed air at all anymore, for anyone.

Belle Tire does mine with nitrogen by default, no extra charge.

They don't use compressed air at all anymore, for anyone.

This is awesome[thumb] More places need to move to this.

Nitrogen is totally beneficial for maintaining pressure longer (which leads to better tread life) and for reducing/eliminating corrosion. The main problem is what the automotive industry wants to charge for using it. If you pay $50 to have your tires filled with nitrogen, you just bought them half a tank(ish).

Does nitrogen work better than air in your tires? My opinion is yes. Is it worth paying much more than $10 for it? My opinion is no.

The only thing bottled Nitrogen has going for it is that it is dry. Many air compressors simply compress regular air and with it the water vapor that's in it. It's the water vapor that causes the pressure problems so if you have a good drier with the compressor any tangible benefit to Nitrogen is gone.

So, you can pay for bottled Nitrogen or get the same results with compressed air that's been dried...


Brian

Primary benefit is lack of moisture.
Most of the air compressors people top off their tires with have no moisture traps so we pump wet air into our tires.

Different gasses do leak out of tires at different rates, I know that using pure CO2 will seep out of tires in a few days. (didn't have compressor, had CO2 tank and regulator)

Nitrogen is a tad smaller molecule than Oxygen so it should seep out faster than regular air.


Brian

How do they get all the air out before filling with N2?

[ninja]


Just wondering..............

[angel]

Nitrogen is a tad smaller molecule than Oxygen so it should seep out faster than regular air.


Brian
It not molecular size, it is permeability.

Some gases pass through the rubber faster than others because they can diffuse through them.

...

Your a Canadian -
Yes I am-and I am just stirring the pot here.

How do they get all the air out before filling with N2?

[ninja]


Just wondering..............

[angel]

Good point-do they vacuum out the old air first?

The only thing bottled Nitrogen has going for it is that it is dry. Many air compressors simply compress regular air and with it the water vapor that's in it. It's the water vapor that causes the pressure problems so if you have a good drier with the compressor any tangible benefit to Nitrogen is gone.

So, you can pay for bottled Nitrogen or get the same results with compressed air that's been dried...


Brian


But not everyone has immediate access to dry air. Plus, nitrogen doesn't fluctuate with temperature nearly as much as air (dry or not). This allows for a more consistent air pressure through a larger range of driving conditions, and in turn, more even tread wear.

It not molecular size, it is permeability.

Some gases pass through the rubber faster than others because they can diffuse through them.

Correct, Nitrogen is a larger molecule, and thus less permeable through rubber.

How do they get all the air out before filling with N2?

[ninja]


Just wondering..............

[angel]

My understanding is that it is a fill/purge technique/machine.

Again, if the place that is charging for the nitrogen is wanting much north of the cost of free, I wouldn't overly bother with it. If your car came with nitrogen and they won't top off for free, use regular air. You won't hurt anything. I might be willing to pay $5 a tire, but that's my limit.

Short of actual track use, I can't really justify the cost of nitrogen. On a DD, I would rather just pick a day out of the month to check/inflate tires. Wheels have gotten to the point that corrosion isn't as large of a factor as it used to be. When was the last time you heard of a wheel blowing from excessive corrosion?

Correct, Nitrogen is a larger molecule, and thus less permeable through rubber.

The permeability has nothing to do with molecule size.

It's more along the lines of why we have to use special O-rings with certain solvents, gasses and fluids; the rubber will absorb certain compounds like a sponge and swell up physically.

N2 isn't a large molecule anyhow.

I'm an aircraft mechanic-a licensed A&P. I simply ask from where you cite your sources as we use this every day. Permeability has nothing to do with molecular size in the example of a tire puncture. Otherwise, it has a large impact.

Edit: Here is one for you - http://www.getnitrogen.org/pdf/graham.pdf

Don't confuse me for one arguing for using nitrogen. Simply outlining its benefits. I don't honestly feel that the automotive industry is charging an appropriate cost for it, as a general rule.

Posted via FF Mobile When my parents bought their Hyundai Sonata I noticed on the lot just every car had dealer installed Nitrogen in the tires...and $100+ added to the cost of the car. I know the benefits of nitrogen, but imo its not worth that much over regular air. No we did not end up paying for the nitrogen, dealer installed stuff was worked outta the price.

How do they get all the air out before filling with N2?

[ninja]


Just wondering..............

[angel]

On my 949 racing wheels, it has two valve stems on each wheel 180degree apart, so u can purge easily.

Nonetheless, I would Never pay extra for nitrogen.

I'm an aircraft mechanic-a licensed A&P. I simply ask from where you cite your sources as we use this every day. Permeability has nothing to do with molecular size in the example of a tire puncture. Otherwise, it has a large impact.

Edit: Here is one for you - http://www.getnitrogen.org/pdf/graham.pdf

Don't confuse me for one arguing for using nitrogen. Simply outlining its benefits. I don't honestly feel that the automotive industry is charging an appropriate cost for it, as a general rule.
Nice link, thanks.

Comparing just N2 and O2, perhaps size comes into play. It doesn't begin to touch upon why CO2 leaks out 50x faster than either of those two. I made up that number; but I do know that a bike tire will go flat overnight, and a car tire will go flat in a couple days if filled with CO2.


When learning to do gel electrophoresis (DNA testing) they explained that the length of the DNA segments is what causes the difference diffusion rates (of those segments) through the gel, the smaller ones move faster and further. Turns out, that is not how it actually works, but everybody thought so for a while and it explains the situation well enough.

Similar to the Bohr model of the atom, incorrect but good for explaining the basic concept of orbiting electrons.

I assume the molecule size explanation for tire leak rate falls into that camp, a good explanation but not really correct. I am no physicist, so I can't say I know and here is how.

I like to recommend it, especially to customers running chrome wheels. Much less moisture = less electrolysis = longer lasting chrome. That, and people who go to Reno/Tahoe/high elevations/colder temps as the pressures won't fluctuate. It also keeps the tires cooler which helps them last longer. $5/wheel, 1 time charge. Pay for it once, free for life on that vehicle. Say no? Fine, have a good day! Won't push it on anyone that says no or thinks they know more than I do.

I like to recommend it, especially to customers running chrome wheels. Much less moisture = less electrolysis = longer lasting chrome. That, and people who go to Reno/Tahoe/high elevations/colder temps as the pressures won't fluctuate. It also keeps the tires cooler which helps them last longer. $5/wheel, 1 time charge. Pay for it once, free for life on that vehicle. Say no? Fine, have a good day! Won't push it on anyone that says no or thinks they know more than I do.

Anyone who turns that down is missing out. Your reasons for recommending it are solid. Thanks for being one of the more reasonable folk.[thumb]

Read this article and you can make your own decision!

Clearing the Air About Nitrogen Tire Inflation (http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tiretech/techpage.jsp?techid=191&affiliate=AD4)

Read this article and you can make your own decision!

Clearing the Air About Nitrogen Tire Inflation (http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tiretech/techpage.jsp?techid=191?affiliate=AD4)

The affiliate string didn't work on your URL Trevor, here's the article without it:
http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tiretech/techpage.jsp?techid=191

Thanks Jake, I appreciate that.

Read this article and you can make your own decision!

Clearing the Air About Nitrogen Tire Inflation (http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tiretech/techpage.jsp?techid=191&affiliate=AD4)

........ very good article, thanks !!![nutkick]

Very good suggestions .. please note