So the short list was down to the Mazdaspeed3, VW GTI, and Focus ST. Decided we don't like the styling on the new Mazda(inside and out) and we may not be able to wait for Ford(Spring maybe Summer 2012). Not much we can find wrong with the GTI. The only tough decision on it would be the DSG or 6 speed. The Golf R comes out January 2012, but too much $$$. Thoughts?

Jr's keeping his 05 ST...this is for Mom and Dad

-BertST Sr.



http://i556.photobucket.com/albums/ss7/rclambertbucket/GTI2011.jpg

I personally like the GTI. Styling is great, the interior is nice, and it is undeniably a fun car. I have started to hear rumblings about reliability being an issue, though.

If it were up to me, id say go GTI, they are well built, high quality, and are more refined than the other two options. The ms3 is a bit more ragged, and based on what ive seen of the 2012, the vw has better fit and finish. Plus, since its not a new design, most all of the bugs have been worked out.

You really cant go wrong with one, honestly if i was in the market, its probably one of my top choices.

I've always liked the way they looked and the HP they have. My only concern would be the reliability issues as well but I don't have any first hand experience.

I approve a GTI. They're sexy as hell. Especially the new ones.

I do like the GTI but i would wait for the ST

I'm jealous. I definitely regret not picking up the '08 GTI with 0% APR for 72 months. Went the safer/cheaper route and got the Rabbit instead. Now I kinda wish I had that additional power (and better fuel economy). >_<

I personally like the GTI. Styling is great, the interior is nice, and it is undeniably a fun car. I have started to hear rumblings about reliability being an issue, though.
I've always liked the way they looked and the HP they have. My only concern would be the reliability issues as well but I don't have any first hand experience.
I haven't heard anything specific in regards to reliability...have heard with the DSG it needs fluid changed every 40k mi. at around $400 bucks.
I approve a GTI. They're sexy as hell. Especially the new ones.
Yeah I like the changes they made in 2010 to the head/tail lights, grill, dual exhaust...
I do like the GTI but i would wait for the ST
That's a long time when you're in the market and they'll probably trickle limited numbers out in the beginning.
I'm jealous. I definitely regret not picking up the '08 GTI with 0% APR for 72 months. Went the safer/cheaper route and got the Rabbit instead. Now I kinda wish I had that additional power (and better fuel economy). >_<
Yeah I'm definitely liking the fuel burn.

buy a beater and wait for the ST

I prefer the GTI as well. I suggest the manual trans if you don't drive in too much traffic, otherwise go for the DSG. If you get the base model it's extremely well priced and does come with a lot of nice features, it's only when you add all the options that the price gets a little on the expensive side. So for the best deal don't add too many options.

i "built" a gti on their website a couple weeks ago and came up at 24k out the door. but hardly any options.

When you visit a dealership you'll see that there really isn't a whole lot to spend on order upgrades. Leather seats vs cloth plaid... sunroof vs not... hmmm not much really. I mean it's already loaded with plenty of standard features. Maybe not as much as a Titanium Focus... but its performance, handling, and refinement make up for it. Although I'm disappointed that HID headlights are no longer a standard feature with the MkVI GTI. It's by no means a deal breaker (for me at least).

As far as reliability goes, it has skyrocketed from the MkV generation and onward. VW really picked themselves up from the dark days of the MkIV generation. You might discover that earlier model GTIs ('06 and '07) with the FSI engine had a few minor issues (http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?3366758). They were ironed out in the '08 model year with the TSI engine. 2010+ GTIs now use the improved TSI with further refinements. They're pretty much bulletproof at this point and any previous problems listed in that above link are irrelevant.

Like you said there are regular maintenance intervals involving a fluid flush. Although it's not cheap I think it's totally worth the hassle. When you test drive a GTI with DSG you may notice that it exhibits the same jolting as the 2012 Focus with PowerShift at lower speeds. It's just the nature of the beast (of dual-clutch transmissions). Earlier VW DSGs had an issue with the mechatronics unit, which resulted in irregular shifting patterns. This was completely covered under a TSB.

I have yet to hear any sort of outright mechanical failure among DSG owners in the community. If it does then chances are someone heavily modified and/or abused their car. VW has had several years of experience with it now. Ford just started with PowerShift. I'm sure they'll solve the PowerShift issues too if they really stick with it (I hope so!). I like that more and more manufacturers are offering it over traditional slushy automatics now and I hope the trend continues.

I just sent an email to this ad on craigslist to see if it's legit. Totally loaded 2011 for 25k.

http://seattle.craigslist.org/see/cto/2627567024.html

Update: Got a quick response and looks legit...I think I'll go take a look at this tomorrow(Sat.) since our UW Huskies have a bye. This is quite a step for a Ford guy.

mmmoose, thanks for the info! It's good to know for the future. I always toy with the idea of buying a VW but get scared off by the prospect of frequent and/or expensive repairs. I've always wanted a GTI (going all the way back to the 'original' 83/84 model). But as I get older, the idea of a nicely-cared-for Phaeton W12 seems better. Except for all those expensive parts that will break. [hihi]

With regard to the OP's post, the GTI is the most aesthetically pleasing car of the bunch to me. Being a former SVT owner and knowing how many "quirks" SVT owners dealt with, I wonder how many "quirks" the new ST will have that owners will have to either learn to live with, or figure out how to change.

<-----You can see what I drive.

If you are looking at a 2009 + you'll be getting the TSI engine w/o the finicky fuel pump/cam follower/intake cam issues that most 2006-2007 (and many 2008) FSI engines had. The TSI was introduced very late during the 2008 MY and finding them are like finding the proverbial needle in a haystack.

I am in the midst of dealing with VOA, and with my dealer's help, am pushing to get my intake cam replaced, as it's clearly showing signs of wear with only 44K and change on it. I've already had the hpfp, cam follower and the fuel rail pressure valve replaced to help cure some high speed fuel cuts (all under warranty, thankfully), but I (and the dealer agrees) that the cam is the culprit. Unfortunately my car's engine code doesn't full under the campaign for the cam, but I think they will give the green light to replace it.

In regards to the DSG, many, many cars were effected by the campaign, including mine. The mechantronics unit was replaced when the car was getting CPO'd around the 30K mile mark, when I bought it. It's a brilliant transmission, don't be afraid of it, but by all means, change the fluid at the 40K interval as required. Many independent euro car shops can do the change, and for less money than the dealer typically gets. Around here (metro Detroit), most shops are in the $300-400 range for that service.

The MKVIs have generally been more reliable than MKVs; that being said, even though I've already had more than my share of issues (brake booster, ac low pressure switch, some interior trim breakage and the above mentioned crap) with mine in 6 short months of ownership, I wouldn't want to be driving any other car at this time.

btw this is my 5th VW/Audi product..I'm either stupid or a glutton for punishment.

Get the GTI, I just got an 03 GTI and my Brother has an 07 with the FSI engine,no problems to report with either and they are fun cars to mod and drive.

Only thing bad I had go on my Rabbit so far was a failing door lock module at around 28k miles. It would intermittently lock/unlock itself repeatedly when I'd open the door sometimes (it's funny because you'd see a flapping wing sorta animation in the MFD). Haven't had a single problem with this car ever since (68k miles), and I regularly abuse the hell out of it with tires screeching. I'd definitely go with VW again if I could afford it. Problem is they're getting way more expensive now.

Have you also considered the 2012 Beetle (http://www.vw.com/en/models/beetle/gallery.html)? Basically if a Beetle, Audi TT, and Porsche Boxster had a baby that's what it would look like. The sport trim has the same 2.0T engine of the GTI. It's pretty sick! In a way I'm kind of glad I don't have that kind of money because deciding between the 2012 Beetle and GTI would probably be the toughest decision in my life.

Only thing bad I had go on my Rabbit so far was a failing door lock module at around 28k miles. It would intermittently lock/unlock itself repeatedly when I'd open the door sometimes (it's funny because you'd see a flapping wing sorta animation in the MFD). Haven't had a single problem with this car ever since (68k miles), and I've abuse the hell out of it. I'd definitely go with VW again if I could afford it. Problem is they're getting way more expensive now.

Have you also considered the 2012 Beetle? Basically if a Beetle, Audi TT, and Porsche had a baby that's what it would look like. The sport trim has the same 2.0T engine of the GTI. It's pretty sick! In a way I'm kind of glad I don't have that kind of money because deciding between the 2012 Beetle and GTI would probably be the toughest decision in my life.


I got to sit in one today while in service. Very nicely finished inside - VW didn't cheap out like on the new Jetta. Pretty roomy, not as practical of a hatch area as the GTI/Golf, but still not bad. This was a Turbo "Launch Edition" - Candy White w/Black Turbo graphics and some slick 19" wheels.

I got to sit in one today while in service. Very nicely finished inside - VW didn't cheap out like on the new Jetta. Pretty roomy, not as practical of a hatch area as the GTI/Golf, but still not bad. This was a Turbo "Launch Edition" - Candy White w/Black Turbo graphics and some slick 19" wheels.

The only hint of Jettafication I saw on the 2012 Beetle was the torsion beam rear suspension on the base models. Although the 2.0T models get IRS. My feeling is that the next Golf will get the same treatment, along with a cheap 2.slow base engine option. It almost feels like they're being nostalgic about the MkIV generation with these changes.

Not gonna lie, I still like the MkV gen the most overall. The '08 R32 is still my ultimate dream car. :-(

The only hint of Jettafication I saw on the 2012 Beetle was the torsion beam rear suspension on the base models. Although the 2.0T models get IRS. My feeling is that the next Golf will get the same treatment, along with a cheap 2.slow base engine option. It almost feels like they're being nostalgic about the MkIV generation with these changes.

Not gonna lie, I still like the MkV gen the most overall. The '08 R32 is still my ultimate dream car. :-(

lol..I hope you're wrong about the next gen. Golf. That 2.0 is a dog. I guess I don't understand why they even use it, when the 2.5 is a bazillion times better of an engine. Is is that much cheaper to produce or what?

The Beetle has lots of nice touches inside. The dual glove boxes, body color matched interior and dash trim, though in the white, I see lots of visible scuffs, scrapes and scratches in the future. I love the white, but that would probably deter me from getting it on the Beetle.

I normally hate white colored cars, but man VW does something amazing with Candy White which really makes it stand out from the crowd. Especially on the GTI!

I normally hate white colored cars, but man VW does something amazing with Candy White which really makes it stand out from the crowd. Especially on the GTI!

I tend to like white cars; some of my favorite vehicles I've owned were white, and getting a Candy White GTI was a serious priority for me. I'm honestly not sure what my 2nd color choice would have been hadn't this car came along..lol

if you can afford maybe you should check out the a3 too... its probably a little less sporty but you can get quattro if you need it... be sure to check the r32... that v6 sounds awesome... and it has the dsg gearbox standard and awd

if you can afford maybe you should check out the a3 too... its probably a little less sporty but you can get quattro if you need it... be sure to check the r32... that v6 sounds awesome... and it has the dsg gearbox standard and awd

Yeah, especially the R32, but like I mentioned, too much $$$. I agree the R32 v6 sound is one of the best but it(Golf R) will be the 4 cyl. turbo for 2012.

btw this is my 5th VW/Audi product..I'm either stupid or a glutton for punishment.Funny!

[QUOTE=mmmoose;3850980]and I regularly abuse the hell out of it with tires screeching. .Also funny.


Thanks guys for the detailed info.
Sorry I've owned a couple 74 Super Beetles in the past but all I see driving the new ones are ladies. Not on the short list for me anyway. We may be in the market for two cars...thinking 2010/11/12 GTI 6 speed and for the wife 2008/09 GLI DSG. That would be really flipping the Fords, 4 of them in the driveway right now.

Yeah, especially the R32, but like I mentioned, too much $$$. I agree the R32 v6 sound is one of the best but it will be the 4 cyl. turbo for 2012.

a3 2.0T quattro with DSG!!!!

probably my dream car

but on a budjet... gti
im a bit worried about reliability of the 2.0t though
i heard it burns oil...

a3 2.0T quattro with DSG!!!!

probably my dream car

but on a budjet... gti
im a bit worried about reliability of the 2.0t though
i heard it burns oil...

They can consume some oil between changes, but in reality many engines do. VW says 1 qt/5,000 miles is well within spec. I've never added more than 3/4 of a qt between changes; this last change I don't recall adding any. I know some guys are going thru a qt in less than 1,000 miles which I think is pretty excessive, but again, are being told by VW that is within factory tolerances.

Your consumption may vary depending on your driving habits and of course the tolerances of your particular engine.

They can consume some oil between changes, but in reality many engines do. VW says 1 qt/5,000 miles is well within spec. I've never added more than 3/4 of a qt between changes; this last change I don't recall adding any. I know some guys are going thru a qt in less than 1,000 miles which I think is pretty excessive, but again, are being told by VW that is within factory tolerances.

Your consumption may vary depending on your driving habits and of course the tolerances of your particular engine.

good info!

Well just got back this afternoon after driving the Focus Titanium and the 2012 GTI 6 speed. Impressed with them both for different reasons. I think Ford kind of blew it by not offering a manual in the Titanium. We may have to after all, wait for the ST.

They can consume some oil between changes, but in reality many engines do. VW says 1 qt/5,000 miles is well within spec. I've never added more than 3/4 of a qt between changes; this last change I don't recall adding any. I know some guys are going thru a qt in less than 1,000 miles which I think is pretty excessive, but again, are being told by VW that is within factory tolerances.

Your consumption may vary depending on your driving habits and of course the tolerances of your particular engine.

I just want to say for the the record none of my vehicles have ever consumed any oil. I check probably once every two weeks.

2000 Volvo S40 - none at all.
2009 MazdaSpeed3 - none (got dirty really fast though)
2006 Ford Fusion - none (short ownership period though)

You experience may vary...[drinking]

1 qt per 5k miles is normal? [gunfire]

Sorry, no it's not. Yes all engines do use oil, but that would drive me nuts. I like VW, don't get me wrong. I love their TDIs and the new Passat from Chattanooga, but I'd be upset at anything over 1/2 qt between oil changes. When my ZXW was under 50k or so it used 1/2 qt every 10k miles- I used Amsoil then. IIRC, it used 1/2 qt every 5k when the miles were really low. That stopped about 20k or so. Now I don't even notice a difference.

not a fan of VW to costly fo rmaintenance and just dont like the new style compared to the 04 GTI or R32. id go MSP or MS3

not a fan of VW to costly fo rmaintenance and just dont like the new style compared to the 04 GTI or R32. id go MSP or MS3

You talking about maintenance cost and the Mazdaspeed Protege in the same sentence?

:b

GM states that LS1 oil usage below 1 quart per 1,500 miles is normal... mine uses no appreciable amount of oil between changes. I change once a year which sounds crazy but I am using Mobil 1 and only accumulate between 3 - 5 thousand miles in that time anyway.

I seem to recall the Focus occasionally used about 1/2 quart or so of oil between changes. It doesn't surprise me that a turbocharged engine uses some oil. Call me sarcastic but I'd be willing to bet some of the oil burning comes down to the owner of said turbocharged engine and how gentle (or not) they are with it.

1 qt per 5k miles is normal? [gunfire]

Sorry, no it's not. Yes all engines do use oil, but that would drive me nuts. I like VW, don't get me wrong. I love their TDIs and the new Passat from Chattanooga, but I'd be upset at anything over 1/2 qt between oil changes. When my ZXW was under 50k or so it used 1/2 qt every 10k miles- I used Amsoil then. IIRC, it used 1/2 qt every 5k when the miles were really low. That stopped about 20k or so. Now I don't even notice a difference.


Define "normal"? It may not be what you consider to be normal or what you would personally find acceptable for your car, but it is considered normal and well within stated tolerances by VW.

You want to talk oil consumption, get yourself an RX-7 or RX-8.



GM states that LS1 oil usage below 1 quart per 1,500 miles is normal... mine uses no appreciable amount of oil between changes. I change once a year which sounds crazy but I am using Mobil 1 and only accumulate between 3 - 5 thousand miles in that time anyway.

I seem to recall the Focus occasionally used about 1/2 quart or so of oil between changes. It doesn't surprise me that a turbocharged engine uses some oil. Call me sarcastic but I'd be willing to bet some of the oil burning comes down to the owner of said turbocharged engine and how gentle (or not) they are with it.

Your last sentence is pretty much spot on. [thumb]

Define "normal"? It may not be what you consider to be normal or what you would personally find acceptable for your car, but it is considered normal and well within stated tolerances by VW.

You want to talk oil consumption, get yourself an RX-7 or RX-8.





Your last sentence is pretty much spot on. [thumb]

but its normal for a rotary to consume oil.

I'm sorta in the same boat with you. I really wanted a GTI and so I tasked a dealer to get me what I wanted. I was told there was one "on the boat" and should expect delivery around mid-October. Well, this date is approaching rapidly and still the dealer doesn't know the exact whereabouts of the car. I have been reading the GTI forums and this is pretty much standard. If you want a GTI with particular options, be prepared to WAIT. Wait times are pretty much 1 to 3 months and you'll still have to make some comprimise such as the color of the car. This is why I test drove a Focus Ti package today. My dealer tols me he could get me EXACTLY what I want in 2 days. Good Luck!

but its normal for a rotary to consume oil.

Oh I know. My point was that if 1 qt +/- per 5K miles would drive him nuts, he should live with one of the Mazdas for a while [cool]