Mainly, the mazdaspeed 3. more horsepower and torque, but not as many electronic gizmos on the inside. Problem is, I've hear the Focus ST will be closer to 27,000, than 25,000. at this point, I really think the MS3 is a much more enjoyable car to drive. It is VERY ugly, but it's looks have grown on me a bit (It's not as offensive in black).

How do you feel the cars will compare?
http://autocar-news.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/04/2011-Mazda-Speed-3-Exterior-Black-Front1.jpg

It's hard to say. We have almost no figures or stats on the Focus ST. Will it be lighter than the MS3? Will it have revoknuckle? Good gas milage? Better handling?

All of that is up in the air right now.

One thing is for certain though: It's going to look a hell of a lot better than the MS3.

yes...such a shame, too. I dont know what Mazda is smoking. Great engine, but truly hideous looks. WHAT ARE YOU THINKING, mazda?

It would be the most amazing thing on earth if the focus ST could start at 25 base.

you can't compare a car we no little to nothing about.

I'm sure once the car is out, there will be some hot hatch shoot outs in the magazines (or even better on Top Gear.) If the car costs slightly more than the ms3 but is still just as quick or faster and handles great, the cost difference wont really matter. Just going on looks, which just about all we can do now; the Focus at least looks better imo.

Not too much of a point for us to speculate this early yet, we'll just have to wait and see

That LOL face on the MS3 is a tragedy. Bad for Mazda, good for the Focus.

. at this point, I really think the MS3 is a much more enjoyable car to drive.

Your mind is already made up, unless your statement is just fluff.
Please tell us the why the new Focus ST is not as enjoyable as the MS3.

Your mind is already made up, unless your statement is just fluff.
Please tell us the why the new Focus ST is not as enjoyable as the MS3.

I should've said, that I *imagine* the MS3 is more fun to drive. Higher horsepower, and (I think) torque. We don't know anything about the focus ST, so the point is a bit moot. it'd be nice if Ford would throw us a few more details.

Go to FocusFest and talk to the guys that designed it. They should be able to give you some insight.

hmmm... based off rumors

'10 Mazda Speed3

Curb Weight 3245lbs
HP: 263
Torque: 280

Rumored Specs for '12 Ford Focus ST
Curb Weight:(Based off Titanium package) 2948lbs
HP: 250
Torque: 266

so yeah it's not a significant difference considering the weight of the car, newer technology, and looks

and yeah the new ST looks amazing

http://newworldcars.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/2012-Ford-Focus-ST-Engine.jpg
http://newworldcars.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/2012-Ford-Focus-ST-Cockpit-View.jpg
http://newworldcars.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/2012-Ford-Focus-ST-Rear-Side-View.jpg

I am going to get flamed for this I am sure, but I actually really like the look of the mazdaspeed3. The grill is a bit lame with that smiley face, but it doesnt bother me.

Having said that, the Focus ST still looks better IMHO, but I would not turn down the MS3 if the Focus ST was not an option.

glad to see the focus is below 3000 lbs, hopefully.

hmmm... based off rumors

'10 Mazda Speed3

Curb Weight 3245lbs
HP: 263
Torque: 280

Rumored Specs for '12 Ford Focus ST
Curb Weight:(Based off Titanium package) 2948lbs
HP: 250
Torque: 266

so yeah it's not a significant difference considering the weight of the car, newer technology, and looks

and yeah the new ST looks amazing

http://newworldcars.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/2012-Ford-Focus-ST-Engine.jpg
http://newworldcars.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/2012-Ford-Focus-ST-Cockpit-View.jpg
http://newworldcars.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/2012-Ford-Focus-ST-Rear-Side-View.jpg
The ST is most likely going to be heavier than the titanium model. Larger wheels, larger spoiler, turbo, etc.

It very well may end up being closer to the MS3 in weight. We can't say much yet. Anyone going to Focus Fest, be sure to write down whatever the ST designers say about it (then share with us) [hihi]

The ST is most likely going to be heavier than the titanium model. Larger wheels, larger spoiler, turbo, etc.

It very well may end up being closer to the MS3 in weight. We can't say much yet. Anyone going to FocusFest, be sure to write down whatever the ST designers say about it (then share with us) [hihi]

That is the titanium model with the handling package(18" wheels)/sports suspension etc

I agree though that the ST will probably be a bit heavier(larger engine probably being the biggest factor though) but I can see it still weighing less than the MS3.

forget the front end (which is also bad), the back of the Mazda is terrible. I had a loan preapproved through my bank to buy either one, and I had to go with the focus. Didn't hold out for the ST because my main reason for buying this car is the gas mileage.

http://newworldcars.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/2012-Ford-Focus-ST-Engine.jpg
Not the neatest looking engine bay I've seen recently.

That is not the engine bay. There have been no photos released of the engine bay. in addition focussport isnt even around, now its FSWerks.

Just because a car has more horsepower does not mean that it is faster. The Focus is already the most comfortable car, along with being the best handling car in its class or above....so the ST is going to be hard to beat!

btw...The Mazda 3 Speed sells for 35k + Delivery and Taxes here in Canada. 10k more than the US! This also effects the perspective that we have of the competition as Canadians.

I'd totally take a WRX over the Mazda. Styling is just terrible on the 3.

The ST will probably handle better then the MS3, which is more important for a hot hatch anyway. Sure going fast in a straight line is fine, but if the car is a dream to track/autoX with then it will probably win more of a following with enthusiast.

I'm excited to see how the ST stacks up against the competition, from the looks of it, it's going to be America's answer to the VW GTI. A fun, practical car that can haul family, their crap and some serious ass all at the same time.

There's a guy I pass from time to time where I live who drives a MS3, and since we don't need front plates here in Delaware, has decided to put false hillbilly teeth in its place.(Think the tow truck from that pixar film) Its absolutely hideous and yet strangely cute, makes me laugh every time I see it.

The ST will probably handle better then the MS3, which is more important for a hot hatch anyway. Sure going fast in a straight line is fine, but if the car is a dream to track/autoX with then it will probably win more of a following with enthusiast.

I'm excited to see how the ST stacks up against the competition, from the looks of it, it's going to be America's answer to the VW GTI. A fun, practical car that can haul family, their crap and some serious ass all at the same time.


the GTI routinely wins comparisons against more powerful cars due to its superior driving dynamics.
Posted via FF Mobile

I believe the current Focus has the same skidpad rating as the MS3. Seeing as the ST will have larger low profile wheels and an upgraded suspension, I expect it will handle better.

Moved to "Ford Focus & General Car Chat"

If that's the "competition" I wouldn't worry much, lol.

I wouldn't be surprised if the ST is 30k

I think the real concern should be the Focus ST competing with the Mustang. If you walk into a show room and are faced with both at the same sticker, a lot of people looking for performance are gonna buy a 'Stang.

The ST will cost more than 27,000. When I got my focus, they had a Titanium for 28,000 without TTL. So I am sure they will be around 30,000.

Well, if I can get a WRX for the same price as a Focus ST, I don’t see the point in getting a focus as my next car.

so the new st might cost 27k ??? That is insane! It's still front wheel drive isn't? Idk... I'd buy a used viper first honestly before I bought an st new (i just love the old vipers) or a used subi or something. I love the way it looks though and I want those seats so bad! Def beats the 3 in looks.

so the new st might cost 27k ??? That is insane! It's still front wheel drive isn't? Idk... I'd buy a used viper first honestly before I bought an st new (i just love the old vipers)

That may just be the most insane comparison ever. A brand new 250 hp fwd car or a 15 year old rwd 400 hp 8.4l v10.

That may just be the most insane comparison ever. A brand new 250 hp fwd car or a 15 year old rwd 400 hp 8.4l v10.

lol, i do believe you are right! [:)~]

Well, if I can get a WRX for the same price as a Focus ST, I don’t see the point in getting a focus as my next car.

I have been saying that since we first started speculating here on FF about a year ago. And I was nearly burned at the stake. But I still feel the same way...it makes no sense. If the ST is close to 30K and I really, REALLY want a FWD car still...I'd just buy an MS3 in black. But then, the WRX is more usable...

It all depends. If you're gonna keep any of those cars stock, then the Focus ST might be worth it to you at 27K+. I've seen the highly modded path on turbo cars...not interested in it again, personally. So if I was gonna drop that much money on a DD sporty car...I'd probably buy a WRX with some options. It's plenty fast, let's be honest.

But so is the MS3, and I'm sure the Focus ST will be too. It all depends on what you want...if you're looking to load one up with power...why don't you go buy an old Focus and save the cash for a build? You'll have a lighter car, especially for track...and you won't be risking your DD racing that way either. Decisions, decisions.

The biggest reason I can think of going with an ST over a WRX is gas milage. The WRX chugs gas like a V8.
Of course, there's a chance it will be able to compete with it in the performance category as well, but it certainly will use less gas.

Of course with a price in that range it only goes to confirm what I was thinking a year ago (well the obvious now) that the focus has been "replaced" by the fiesta. The focus has moved up a notch and the fiesta is the new cheap car for ford.

In all fairness,get dynos for both cars (ms3 < st) before judging, there whp are always lower than what they are on paper,,,,i used to live in South Africa, where ST's , GTI's and ms3's are all common cars,,,and if a 2011 st with (200 whp) can beat a so called 260 hp ms3,,,there is a huge mistake mazda made with there engins!!

GTI's are overpriced and under powered for what you get, iv been driving in a ST in South Africa for about 6 months and if the 2012 has a 50 paper hp higher then its predecessor with a 220 paper hp, id def be going for the st,,, its meaner than a GTI and MS3 and with its tangerine orange, completely different yet so elegant!

I'm still sorry to say that the Ms3 is till underpowered, if im not mistaken they say it makes 260 crank hp, but wheel hp it makes about 215, where the st will deliver more....and Mazda's are still Mazda's !!!!

I'd like to see a new MS 6 :-/

That is not the engine bay. There have been no photos released of the engine bay. in addition focussport isnt even around, now its FSWerks.

Yes the 2.0 Ecoboost in the ST was shown at last years Paris Auto Show
http://pics.livejournal.com/ffocused/pic/000461ty/s640x480

is there an engine under there somewhere?

I guess the biggest test will be getting in one and driving it.

After all is said and done, the numbers are only numbers. If you get in a car and fall in love with driving it, then you love that car.

Yes the 2.0 Ecoboost in the ST was shown at last years Paris Auto Show
http://pics.livejournal.com/ffocused/pic/000461ty/s640x480

I stand corrected

The ST will cost more than 27,000. When I got my focus, they had a Titanium for 28,000 without TTL. So I am sure they will be around 30,000.

On the other hand, a loaded Mazda 3s costs more than a base MS3.
So the ST could start at $25k with no MFT, leather, or DSG.. start adding options and it could be $30k. So you would be cross shopping a base Mustang GT with a loaded Focus ST. My $.02

Posted via FF Mobile

Well, if I can get a WRX for the same price as a Focus ST, I don’t see the point in getting a focus as my next car.

thats what im thinking. i think everyone is gonig to say how great this car is, but who is going to spend that kind of cash on a fwd family hauler. the caliber srt4 didnt exactly seem to sell great.
i think they would have been better off making it a sportier 2 door, like a totally seperate model like they used to. think the ford exp or the honda crx, or in europe the scirroco. then i could see speding the money......maybe

Some people love the MS3, but many hate it for the turbo lag, torque steer, gas mileage, and front end looks. The ST should be way better in all those areas.

The GTI wins most hot hatch comparos based on its driving dynamics and overall package, but it's a bit underpowered. I expect the ST to be like a more powerful GTI. Should be a great car and worth a slightly higher price.

As strange as it may sound, I'll be cross shopping the ST with the 3.8 genesis coupe. Very different cars, but I'm looking for something quick and fun to drive, with back seats, good gas mileage, and under $30k. Prefer smooth power delivery to major turbo lag.

is there an engine under there somewhere?
I understand that it can isolate heat, but why not build it into the hood? That way, you can easily access everything just by opening the hood.

It's hard to get excited when you open the hood of a car and all you see is plastic.

I understand that it can isolate heat, but why not build it into the hood? That way, you can easily access everything just by opening the hood.

It's hard to get excited when you open the hood of a car and all you see is plastic.

I would be nice to see cars coming straight from the factory with jewels under the hood, but then what would we do in our spare time?

It's hard to get excited when you open the hood of a car and all you see is plastic.

Man I have been driving threads off topic lately[rofl]

But, yeah, when you go and look at new cars, you're like ok I'm going to pop the hood and check out the... injection molded plastic cover :( Like my roommates newer 335, I understand its a twinturbo, but all you see is a sea of plastic. Then there's my friends RB25 swapped into his 240Z. It's epic, you see all of the mechanical bits in all their glory. Big honking turbo, 6-1 header, gleaming valve cover, braided stainless lines. OK so most of that is after market, but come on, I'm an engineer, you have to show me something cool and mechanical to look at :D

the caliber srt4 didnt exactly seem to sell great. You don't suppose the fact that it was hideously ugly had anything to do with it do you? [poke]

You don't suppose the fact that it was hideously ugly had anything to do with it do you? [poke]

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_EijGNFmTTLU/SWIVhmLL1TI/AAAAAAAABFc/aKmj2CyOnGU/s400/15_1.gif

You don't suppose the fact that it was hideously ugly had anything to do with it do you? [poke]



Posted via FF Mobile Lol, inside and out.

On the other hand, a loaded Mazda 3s costs more than a base MS3.
So the ST could start at $25k with no MFT, leather, or DSG.. start adding options and it could be $30k. So you would be cross shopping a base Mustang GT with a loaded Focus ST. My $.02

Posted via FF Mobile

This is exactly what I'm thinking is going to happen. Base ST without MFT and most the fancy gadgets would be around 25-26K then load it up to 30K or so. And the Base Mustang GT to loaded ST comparison sounds right to me.

Any guesses on the aftermarket tuning for the ST? What has been available in Europe for the ST & RS's? Are there companies offer ECU flashes for more power, etc like the VW crowd has?

This is exactly what I'm thinking is going to happen. Base ST without MFT and most the fancy gadgets would be around 25-26K then load it up to 30K or so. And the Base Mustang GT to loaded ST comparison sounds right to me.

problem is the base mustang v6 N/A still puts over 270whp to the ground (factory 300 hp) and gets 33mpg. pretty much a no brainer in the hp realm and mpg realm for the price range (neither is all that comfortable to drive with people in the back seat). insurance on a mustang would also end up being cheaper since the st having a turbo automatically puts it in the performance catagory with insurance companies.
There's alot more ford models in the same price range that have better output numbers and close mpg numbers.
as far as those saying the focus is more comfortable, that its so great handling, have you driven every car out there? or is that just what you heard?

I doubt many people will be cross shopping a base Mustang with a top of the line Focus... even if their performance is comparable.

Posted via FF Mobile

well, the focus could be faster than we think. think about gearing between the svt and zetec! if the svt had the zetec gears, it would be quicker! so we don't know gearing. if ur talking a difference of only a few hp/tq, gearing could make up the difference!

I doubt many people will be cross shopping a base Mustang with a top of the line Focus... even if their performance is comparable.

Posted via FF Mobile

seems some of us did (mustang or others)...