http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/2011/06/23/automobiles/wheels-touch/wheels-touch-blog480.jpg
After steady year-on-year improvement, Ford has plunged from fifth position in 2010 to 23rd in the 2011 Initial Quality Study released by J.D. Power & Associates on Thursday. Lincoln, the luxury subsidiary of the Ford Motor Company, was ranked eighth last year, but fell to 17th this year.

The rankings, however, belie the automaker’s sustained manufacturing quality, the survey authors noted.

Primarily, the steep decline was attributed to consumer complaints about MyFord and MyLincoln Touch, the company’s in-car telematics systems that use a touch screen, dashboard display and voice commands presumably to help drivers operate radio and climate controls, as well as the navigation system.

Many in the automotive press, including The Times, have been critical of the system’s complexity. Consumer Reports said the “aggravating design” was one reason it could not give the Ford Edge its coveted designation of “Recommended.”

The initial quality study by J.D. Power examines vehicles during the first 90 days of ownership. This year, it was based on responses from more than 73,000 owners and lessees of new vehicles from the 2011 model year.

Vehicle owners were asked whether they had any of 228 possible problems, which included mechanical defects and malfunctions as well as design issues like the controls’ ease of use in categories like exterior, engine/transmission and audio/entertainment/navigation.

The study then graded automakers on the number of problems per 100 vehicles — the lower the number the fewer problems and the higher the initial quality rating. Over all, Lexus garnered first place in the study’s brand rankings. Rounding out the top five were Honda, Acura, Mercedes-Benz, and Mazda and Porsche in a tie for fifth.


In the 2010 ranking, when it placed fifth, Ford had 93 problems reported per 100 vehicles. That ratio has increased to 116 problems per 100 vehicles this year.

“They had a really good quality story,” said David Sargent, vice president of global vehicle research at J.D. Power, in a telephone interview. “They were progressing steadily year over year, and everything was going fine.”

“Consumers are looking for these touch technologies in vehicles and Ford took the, let’s say, brave decision to be a leader in this area,” he added.

But no good deed goes unpunished. Consumers complained that the system was not as intuitive to operate as they would have liked, while also airing their displeasure about the hands-free, voice-activated operations.

When asked whether there were other problems that contributed to Ford’s fall, Mr. Sargent said MyFord Touch was the primary driver, but “there were a few other things which together would add up.”

He would not elaborate on what those were, as none of the problems were significant enough to discuss in detail, he said.

There is some good news for Ford, however. In the realm of manufacturing defects and malfunctions, Ford “continues to perform pretty well,” Mr. Sargent said. “What we are witnessing here essentially has nothing to do with manufacturing,” he said.

What befell Ford this year echoes the experience of BMW in the 2006 survey. When J. D. Power redesigned the survey to add more questions about design problems, BMW performed poorly because its new iDrive interface system received significant criticism, yet its manufacturing quality was on a par with that of Toyota.

Makes sense based on my experiences.

Posted via FF Mobile Whats retarded is people are going to just read the ranks. You can get both Fords and Lincolns without the touch systems. People are just going to read this and think Ford sucks overall.

This is why I don't trust JD's retarded ratings. They blatantly skew a car's "quality" rating with BS like this. Sorry but I wouldn't consider MyFord Touch to be a critical component of the car. This is not something which is going to leave you stranded on the road. When most people read these ratings they assume it refers to the mechanical components of a car. Although I agree that these faults should be exposed, this is obviously not the best approach to keeping consumers accurately informed.

Manufacturers with false stereotypes continue to get bad ratings, while Toyota and Honda continue to get their asses kissed by them. It's so funny how they've shamelessly gotten away with this while consumers blindly take their word for it.

...
“Consumers are looking for these touch technologies in vehicles and Ford took the, let’s say, brave decision to be a leader in this area,” he added.
...


If only they did a little more R&D before releasing the product ... how nice would it have been if it was easier to use, and if it didn't come with so many freakin bugs ...

The "Touch" stuff is a nice idea, and sweet when it works, but currently it's hard to use (especially for the typical Lincoln customer) and nothing would be more fun than the nav screen to go blank when in a foreign area and you NEED to know which way to turn NOW.

This is why I don't trust JD's retarded ratings. They blatantly skew a car's "quality" rating with BS like this. Sorry but I wouldn't consider MyFord Touch to be a critical component of the car. This is not something which is going to leave you stranded on the road. When most people read these ratings they assume it refers to the mechanical components of a car. Although I agree that these faults should be exposed, this is obviously not the best approach to keeping consumers accurately informed.

Manufacturers with false stereotypes continue to get bad ratings, while Toyota and Honda continue to get their asses kissed by them. It's so funny how they've shamelessly gotten away with this while consumers blindly take their word for it.



Posted via FF Mobile The public blindly takes someones word for it for a lot of things...why should cars be any different lol. I dont think I need to elaborate.

Sorry J.D. Power, but my 2012 Ford Focus is the BEST car on the road today!!!!

MFT works, and I have not had any problems with it or the transmission at all!!!!!!!!!!

This is typical Ford luck. Corp gets blamed for it's owners not RTFM. I seem to recall Ford offering classes in how to use the system, and hopefully that's coming to fruition.

Thats nice, but it makes one wonder why they are lessons on how to use your car. I've not used MFT at all (still havent gotten out to test drive a 2012), but if the interface is clunky enough to require classes then its a bad interface. I dont expect people to pick it up instantly, but look at something like the iPhone. Anyone can learn to use it fluently with just a few pointers.
If the interface was designed well, all you'd need to include with it is a simple 5 page pamphlet outlining basic features and anyone but the dullest user should be able to figure out the rest.

This is why I don't trust JD's retarded ratings. They blatantly skew a car's "quality" rating with BS like this. Sorry but I wouldn't consider MyFord Touch to be a critical component of the car. This is not something which is going to leave you stranded on the road. When most people read these ratings they assume it refers to the mechanical components of a car. Although I agree that these faults should be exposed, this is obviously not the best approach to keeping consumers accurately informed.

Manufacturers with false stereotypes continue to get bad ratings, while Toyota and Honda continue to get their asses kissed by them. It's so funny how they've shamelessly gotten away with this while consumers blindly take their word for it.

Yes and no. True, you can still drive the car without using the MyFord interface. But lets face it, if you drop lots of money on a car and are frustrated with the interface, it's going to leave you less than satisfied. And satisfaction is basically what this survey is measuring.

I applaud Ford for being aggressive and engaging new technology. But I also feel like they should have spent more time ironing out the issues. A poor user interface can cause the driver to be distracted while driving which can lead to accidents. In a perfect world everyone would fully test the car before buying it, and pass it up if they didn't like it. But apparently that's not the case.

As for the comments about kissing Toyota and Honda's ass, all I can say is that the survey speaks for itself. Lexus is without question the quality leader, but they also have a dated model lineup. They have made no substantial changes in years, except for the CT200 which is a very low volume car. Honda climbed in ranks because they haven't changed much either, yet all around them the competition is changing. So Ford gambled with impressive new technology and now we're seeing the results.

lol @ these rankings

Don't put the blame entirely on Ford. Last I checked this was a joint effort with Microsoft. And we all know how they've had a stellar background in reliability... :-/

And yes, I agree that if you drop a few hundred bucks on a feature like this that it damn well better work. On the other hand it's also something that can be fixed over time with software/firmware upgrades. In a few months this stupid rating will be completely irrelevant.

Personally I wish more customers would support/encourage manufacturers to stick with using mechanical features, instead of "teching" the hell out of everything. I'm more worried that one day MyFord Touch will become a standard feature. Even if they make it 100% foolproof I still prefer to have physical buttons and analog gauges... sigh. :-(

I did not see this thread when I posted my own interpretation of JD Powers findings ..

This sort of answers my question- get MFT or not. Looks like not.

Here's what I find funny,

The 'techy' cars are marketed to the 'techy' generations, say up to mid/late 40's.
It's the same generations that will take the J.D. Powers surveys vs the older generations.
It's the same generation that thinks they can figure anything out without help or a manual and claims to be good with computers/software.

So in every regard this is a failure. That generation has been shown that they don't know it all. They are not proficient with somewhat simple control procedures. They are in over their head, yet unwilling to admit they are partly to blame and fail to realize they are the driving force behind MFT.

Stupid computer vs I'm not sure if I'm doing this right, I'll read the manual and see what I did wrong.
It's the same as most any computer and software. I remember when Windows 7 came out there where a good many people who said it was junk and didn't work well. I have 7 on this computer and haven't had a single issue, nor have I had any issues with Vista, XP, ME, 98, 95 far as personal computer OS. I am an idiot, which I don't hide, and if I can figure things out then I'm sure the average person should be able to also.
Though maybe this is an indication that the logical process of man is failing?

Though maybe this is an indication that the logical process of man is failing?

^^ I think this is the case. The MFT doesn't fix anything, just makes it more complex. I still like all my controls and directions to be analog, but I guess its just me.

This is why I don't trust JD's retarded ratings. They blatantly skew a car's "quality" rating with BS like this. Sorry but I wouldn't consider MyFord Touch to be a critical component of the car. This is not something which is going to leave you stranded on the road.

Not necessarily true. On a trip today my MFT locked up completely and would not respond to any commands. The volume started to increase and I kept having to use the radio's physical volume controls to continually turn it down. Finally, unplugging my iPhone stopped the music. But, the MFT wouldn't turn off. No matter what I did, the screen stayed on even with the car off. That screen running overnight in winter could possibly drain the battery to a point where it wouldn't start the car. In a three week old car, do you really feel I should be happy to have to start pulling fuses?

Posted via FF Mobile Whats retarded is people are going to just read the ranks. You can get both Fords and Lincolns without the touch systems. People are just going to read this and think Ford sucks overall.

Yep...pretty much.

Tech Support?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C2Ph8zwpNyI&feature=related

I fall into the general age range that systems like this are supposed to appeal to (I'm 33)... and I don't want anything to do with it. I'd much rather have a physical knob or button to interface with than step through a menu on a touch screen.

Electronics tend to be one of the things that manufacturers only stock for so long. What are you supposed to do 10 years from now when MFT goes tits-up and you need a new touch screen, let's say, and the part is NLA? Hit the junkyard?

Azdamay- that may be the best argument I have heard for not getting it. I actually waited for this to come out in the Focus before buying a car. I was all set to buy a Prius-but loved the gadgets in the Focus I saw at CES so I waited. Now, Prius is way overpriced- the MFT doesn't seem all that great.

I am planning on getting the Focus- without the MFT though- and now just trying to decide if it's OK for a late 30s no kids no marriage tech guy to own a hatchback- ha.

Yeah, I have that concern that Azdamay brought up too.

In fact, I even went as far as to contact FORD to see what could be done in the future to install and aftermarket unit where the MFT is.

I like the MFT system, but I don't want to find out that in 7 years, I can't use the radio/bluetooth anymore because the system is no longer working and it will cost me $8000 to replace the MFT system which is no longer under warranty.

They coudn't answer my question.

Don't put the blame entirely on Ford. Last I checked this was a joint effort with Microsoft. And we all know how they've had a stellar background in reliability... :-/
I thought I read that it was an independent that developed the MFT, and that Ford has now brought in Microsoft to FIX the issues? Regardless of the programming company, ultimately it's Ford's product; it's Ford's responsibility to make sure it works as promised.

And yes, I agree that if you drop a few hundred bucks on a feature like this that it damn well better work. On the other hand it's also something that can be fixed over time with software/firmware upgrades. In a few months this stupid rating will be completely irrelevant.
This survey is completely valid. It's an initial quality survey, and this is the main interface that customers use to get the car to do what they want it to do. Interactive tech like this will highly effect the end user's view of the quality of the vehicle. Ford knew this when they put this system in place. If the interface was simple and user friendly, and if the software worked as promised, this could have (should have) been a huge boost for Ford. All the more reason that Ford should have worked out the kinks before introducing this to the public rather than rushing this to market.

And to those saying it's user error, this goes way beyond people not knowing how to program the clocks on their VCRs. The software is flawed and extremely buggy. It causes the MFT and associated systems to work incorrectly, lock up, become unresponsive, etc. This is a software issue, not a user issue.

Personally I wish more customers would support/encourage manufacturers to stick with using mechanical features, instead of "teching" the hell out of everything. I'm more worried that one day MyFord Touch will become a standard feature. Even if they make it 100% foolproof I still prefer to have physical buttons and analog gauges... sigh. :-(
^ This X 1000 ^

I'm a gadget freak, but I don't want my car loaded with them and reliant on them to work. I like cars that are designed to be driven, not played with. I like to keep my cars for many years, and all the "tech" makes cars so much more expensive and difficult to maintain.

I am planning on getting the Focus- without the MFT though- and now just trying to decide if it's OK for a late 30s no kids no marriage tech guy to own a hatchback- ha.

Depends on whether or not you want to stay that way [:)]

Yeah, I have that concern that Azdamay brought up too.

In fact, I even went as far as to contact FORD to see what could be done in the future to install and aftermarket unit where the MFT is.

I like the MFT system, but I don't want to find out that in 7 years, I can't use the radio/bluetooth anymore because the system is no longer working and it will cost me $8000 to replace the MFT system which is no longer under warranty.

They coudn't answer my question.
Oh, they COULD answer your question. They just chose not to. The answer...you're S.O.L. Trade in your 7 year old car for a new one.

You COULD be right but I suspect your statement is no more based in fact that the comment from the Ford rep. Only time will tell unless you have some insight into Ford`s future technology plans and replacement parts strategies that you`d be willing to share.

True enough. I'm just basing my statements on the comments from the dealerships when my wife was shopping for her car. She said she wanted to drive the car for 10+ years and they all but laughed at her, stating that cars aren't meant to be driven that long.

I`d be curious to know what the turnover rate has to be in order for a car manufacturer to survive. There`s got to be some magic combination of sales to new clients and sales to existing clients. Even knowing that ratio would be interesting.

Yet, you hardly ever see promotions from car dealers to existing clients. I know that I never heard from Subaru or my dealer when my Subaru passed the five year mark which is when I think it`s typical for peeps to start thinking about a replacement.

If Subaru had contacted me at that point and said: Hope you`re happy with Subaru, if you`re thinking about a new one, here`s a coupon for $500.00 off a new car - who knows, I might have been inclined to think seriously about another Sub.

Anyone ever get a promotion to help lure them into making sure their next vehicle was the same brand?

I would have to see a few things about the MFT but,

The Bluetooth, etc. is held within the 'radio'. The data it gets about the car and changes it makes are transferred down the CAN BUS. For those who won't understand that statement, what that is similar to is a telephone line; you can talk over it, go on the internet over it, etc. Data from various sensors can travel up/down it and anything on the line can be read.

So, in 7 years if the MFT is obsolete so long as a newer unit uses the same CAN BUS it should be able to work or be modified to work.
Also right now the CAN BUS is the end of the line as far as in car electronics go. It was close to 30 years ago it was first designed, was just that at that time data transfer technology couldn't be achieved to implement it. So odds are CAN will be around for a long time.

To understand what CAN is, think of it as a forum (and it being this post). Everyone who has access or clicks on this post can read it. Non-CAN (roughly 2004 and older cars) don't work this way. They work more like email, only the people who get the email can see the message.

Anyone ever get a promotion to help lure them into making sure their next vehicle was the same brand?
Our local MINI dealership here in Orlando has had lots of different events throughout the years for customers. Rallys, track days, movie gatherings, tech days, catered parties, etc. They sponsor lots of community-led events as well, sending in MINI swag and stuff. MINI USA sponsors nationwide drives/meets every couple years, organizing caravans, parade laps on Daytona/Indy, huge catered parties, etc. They send collectible stuff in the mail once in a while (playing cards, secret message decoders, etc.). They do a great job fostering a community for their customers, and that definitely brings people back and develops loyalty. They don't necessarily give huge discounts on the new car, but I don't think the MINI community cares so much about that. They get to be a part of something bigger than just buying another car.

I've never had another dealership/manufacturer do anything like that. And I've never enjoyed car ownership as much as with my MINI either.

Ford certainly isn't going to do any of that ^^ fun stuff. But, I did get annoying letters from the dealer in the mail every so often, telling me they wanted to buy my old stinker car and get me into a new Ford today. Yeah, lemme trade in my SVT on a sweet new Exploder. I filed those right in the ol' circular file.

I'm just waiting to hear about guys "rooting" their MFT and installing Android on it.

I've never had another dealership/manufacturer do anything like that. And I've never enjoyed car ownership as much as with my MINI either.

You've never owned a Jeep then. Their events make you local dealer look like a little girl's tea party (no offense). Global weekend off-road events (Jamboree's) and a yearly "Camp Jeep" that people travel from around the world to attend.

It's a Jeep thing. You wouldn't understand.

I've never had another dealership/manufacturer do anything like that. And I've never enjoyed car ownership as much as with my MINI either.

I've known other MINI owners who were treated the same way. My VW dealership is like this too. Free promo gifts, magazines, survey letters, etc. And anyone who bought a GTI got a cute evil rabbit "Fast" ornament (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xnd1BxAo81g). They also have a mini fridge packed with drinks and one of those fancy pod coffee machines in the waiting area. When I first got my car I was like "this is normal?!" haha. They continue to take good care of me and even covered something out of warranty (which would've set me back 800 bucks) along with a free loaner Jetta for the day.

As someone already mentioned, the only thing I got from Ford was a letter showing interest in my 2002 ZX3 to trade in towards another car. And I'd be lucky to find a freezing cold pot of stale coffee in the waiting area. Despite being a loyal and friendly customer for years I never got that same treatment in return. I'd just have to pray that my service was scheduled on a day when one of the managers weren't in a pissy mood. Although in all fairness I'm discovering that there are better Ford dealerships in my area now, like Chapman in Willow Grove.

This whole thing is obviously not a deal breaker by any means, but it's definitely nice to get that sort of human treatment on the side. And I recognize that dealerships are out to make money no matter what. What makes the real difference is seeing them put some of that money back into their customers as a way of saying thank you. [headbang]

You've never owned a Jeep then. Their events make you local dealer look like a little girl's tea party (no offense). Global weekend off-road events (Jamboree's) and a yearly "Camp Jeep" that people travel from around the world to attend.

It's a Jeep thing. You wouldn't understand.

Humph, well, I've owned two Jeeps. A Grand Cherokee and a Comanche. I will NEVER own another Jeep or Chrysler product again. Other than the vehicles letting me down time and again, we never had any of the events you describe. In the end, wouldn't have mattered.

P.S. They need to stop making threads to easy to hijack!

You've never owned a Jeep then. Their events make you local dealer look like a little girl's tea party (no offense). Global weekend off-road events (Jamboree's) and a yearly "Camp Jeep" that people travel from around the world to attend.

It's a Jeep thing. You wouldn't understand.
Actually we have a Jeep in the family, and there is definitely a great community among Jeep enthusiasts (We share parking space at a local Sonic sometimes with the local Jeep club). You're talking about national events, and as you mentioned I was talking about my local dealer. There are plenty of MINI events that go into just as large a scale as the Jamborees and Camp Jeep (which I haven't personally been to, but have heard great things about it and seen some awesome vids). The focus of Camp Jeep of course is what Jeeps do best...offroading. MTTS (http://www.eventjack.com/registration/minitakesthestates2010/route.html), MINIs on the Dragon (http://www.minisonthedragon.com/), MINI United (http://www.facebook.com/MINIunited), etc. are all focused on what MINIs do best...spirited driving. And of course both of those goals take a backseat to the real focus, which is fostering the community of enthusiasts. No need to have a pissing contest about which is better. They're all great events, and a blast for the people involved. What wouldn't I understand?

I'm new to the Ford scene, though. I know there are plenty of die-hard Ford fans out there. From what it's sounding like in this thread, are there not the same types of events for Ford fans?

Anyway, sorry for continuing down the off-topic path.

Humph, well, I've owned two Jeeps. A Grand Cherokee and a Comanche. I will NEVER own another Jeep or Chrysler product again. Other than the vehicles letting me down time and again, we never had any of the events you describe. In the end, wouldn't have mattered.

Shrug. Any vehicle can have lemons. I have had my Wrangler 15 years and never a single issue with it (that I didn't cause myself) and I know plenty of other Jeepers without issues. I've had plenty of warnings from family and friends about buying a FORD (insert favorite joke acronym here), I'll still take my chances.

I've been fortunate enough to attend 2 Camp Jeeps in the US and several Jamborees in North America, as well as some gatherings and rallys for other vehicles I've had. I still think the Jeep community has the best events and the best corporate sponsorship event with Camp Jeep. But that's my opinion. [angel]

I know what you mean. I've never owned a Ford before three weeks ago either and always stayed away from them after my experience with other domestic brands. But, looking at the 2011 Consumer Reports, none of the Jeeps are recommended. Ford has seven vehicles which are.

Does that mean anything? I think so but then again my Subaru was highly recommended but drove me nuts with expensive bi-yearly brake jobs and a crappy climate control system.

It's a Jeep thing. You wouldn't understand.

I really dislike that saying. No, I don't own nor have I ever owned, a Jeep. So I guess I just don't 'understand' but it just rubs me the wrong way. Rather than making a glib statement to the effect that everyone else who doesn't own a Jeep is a moron, why not enlighten us so that we DO understand? [rolleyes] Every time I see one of those bumper stickers or spare tire covers I cringe.